Alexandre
Will we ever see Coupés, Barchettas or 124s again from Fiat ? That's one of the questions we put to Guillaume Clerc, Fiat and Abarth Product Manager, on the occasion of our trip to Italy to learn more about the collaboration between Fiat and Disney.
How can we forget models such as the Fiat Coupé, the Fiat Barchetta or the Fiat 124 coupé/spider, little pleasure models? At a time when Fiat is offering electric models 500, 600 and Topolinoand will most likely offer a new Panda next year, will coupes, roadsters and spiders ever return to the range?
Guillaume Clerc's answer:
"Of course, I can't afford to reveal our product plan. We have a rich product plan. We'll be looking to broaden the spectrum and range of our product offering.
We look for it with a major idea in mind: simplicity, accessibility in terms of price, a fresh, happy side and a smile. When we turn around that, we'll come across products that are more or less distinctive. The idea will be to avoid always being in the market standard, the very mainstream and very déjà vu product.
Other manufacturers no longer try their hand at the pleasure product (editor's note: sports product) genre. And pleasure at Fiat is not necessarily expressed in this kind of product today.
Nevertheless, motoring pleasure can no longer be conceived in terms of very sporty objects, although it has been in the past, and I think it will return. Maybe with Fiat, maybe not. We can imagine Abarth making this kind of product.
My answer is that we will continue to strive to bring automotive pleasure. Automotive objects are not just tools. We want to give emotion, and emotion can be transformed with different types of products, such as spiders. The future will tell us more.
As you can see, if Fiat were to return to this type of product, it wouldn't be for the next few years. In the short term, "sporty" motoring pleasure is more likely to return to Abarth than to Fiat. The latter has a different way of bringing pleasure. A spider, why not, but not just yet.
I'd find that hard to believe, or all-electric with an elephant's weight. The only surviving model on the market that's selling like hotcakes is the cousin of the last 124... the MX5, and its replacement, which has already been announced, has taken on an already delirious weight for a roadster, unless it comes out with the range-extending birotor like the concept.
We can say thank you to FCA, because between the 124 Abarth, the 500 (which is the best-selling car in Germany), the 4C, the 8C, the Giulia V6, the Stelvio V6 and other Maseratis, we've had some magnificent thermal testaments, and the used prices show that they don't lose value and have a high love rate.
More than a real sports car, I think Fiat can offer a small, dynamic electric roadster (it's not even worth thinking about, it's not going to happen) with a 60kWh battery and 200 hp motor, weighing in at around 1,400 kilos. Today, the 600e is only 100 kilos heavier, but with only two seats and the announced increase in battery density, it's perfectly realistic from a technical point of view. I saw that Hyundai had also started simulating gear shifts on its Ioniq 5 N, so there's something there to be explored... Being much lower down the road with a specific model should bring a fair amount of pleasure, all in a classic body, without the exuberance of Abarth (neon green color, big diffusers) but rather with a luggage rack and a socket concealed by a chromed fuel filler flap. This Nuova 124 was a great success, and I hope it will be repeated.
There are some who dream the day away, 1400kg when everyone claims a minimum of 500kg more with electric power!
And don't be fooled: above 1600 kgs, the weight-based malus is rife in France (not yet for electric vehicles, but it won't be long, as the French state is very inventive when it comes to taxing everything).
In Switzerland, they decided to tax electric cars because they did some "real" research and saw that they were just a decoy for pollution, and when you consider the weight, it's an aberration, so they have the same taxes as the others... and paf le chien, at least they don't let themselves be fooled easily.
Some people read the technical data sheets: the Fiat 600e weighs 1,520 kilos with a rear bench seat, 10 centimetres more than a second-generation 124. The Peugeot e-208 weighs even less, around 1450 kilos on the same platform and 4m in length. The 124 had a comparable length, so it's perfectly feasible with what's already on the market, and it's getting easier all the time, thanks to the progress we're already making on density, which means less weight on board for the same range. In fact, a model just 1.23 m high and designed for two people will have no efficiency problems whatsoever.
Some people read the technical data sheets: the Fiat 600e weighs 1,520 kilos with a rear bench seat, 10 centimetres more than a second-generation 124. The Peugeot e-208 weighs even less, around 1450 kilos on the same platform and 4m in length. The 124 had a comparable length, so it's perfectly feasible with what's already on the market, and it's getting easier all the time, thanks to the progress we're already making on density, which means less weight on board for the same range. In fact, a model just 1.23 m high and designed for a two-person ride will have no efficiency problems whatsoever. Let me remind you that a 124 has only two doors and can do without a roof, which further reduces weight compared with a small compact... The only dream is to hope that Fiat will come up with an image and niche model, not to aim for 1400 kilos, a weight that is already achievable by asking Pininfarina to produce a Spider body based on the eCMP platform.
The MX5 can't manage to go under 1,500kg or even 1,600kg, and the 124 could, but of course the groundhog puts the chocolate in tinfoil and smokes it! That's what I'm saying... some people are daydreaming.
Progress in electrics??? But what progress, because we're still waiting for it, and for the moment it's all just wind!
Because the roof reduces weight??? That's news to me, because it's precisely the opposite, with all the reinforcements needed to keep the body rigid. A minimum of information would be necessary apparently.
And how do you convert a front-wheel drive platform to rear-wheel drive without gaining weight? By invoking the Holy Spirit???
As a reminder, Pininfarina has been a brand and no longer designs bodies for some time.
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There are other parameters to take into account: lower electrical consumption (cf. the future Twingo at less than 10 KW/h, rather than ever-increasing battery capacity and vehicle weight), the wheel motor (weight and effort distribution, simplified transmission), by-wire electric braking (simpler, more efficient, less expensive), rare-metal-free batteries (cheaper, easier to manufacture, no foreign energy dependency). We can reduce weight and price at the same time, which opens up new economic perspectives. Now, driving pleasure is a very subjective notion, dictated by our thermal environment...
Driving pleasure is subjective, but the sound of an engine is irreplaceable. But some people still like that, and don't like the silence or noise of electric cars.
Riding pleasure is subjective... it's the first time I've heard that.
I mean, the pleasure of driving depends on how you feel about it. You may prefer one type of car to another, and prefer to drive it in a certain way. Subjective is not the right word: a quiet car can be fun to drive, even if you prefer a sporty one.
There's a huge difference between driving and piloting. This message was mainly addressed to Calle
But that's what makes the difference between a car with a soul and a 4-wheeler!
No, no, subjective is the right word. Take the test and ask the people around you how they define the pleasure of driving (if it exists for everyone), you'll see...
In fact, they're unanimous. First of all, they differentiate between driving and riding, and that makes a huge difference, because there's no comparison, hence the expression "4-wheel mobility" for driving on the one hand, and "riding pleasure" for a sports car on the other. It's like comparing the moon and the sun, or day and night.
Sporty models are reserved for Abarth, aren't they?
That's the brand's raison d'être, so it's only logical that it should continue.
The Abarth 500e isn't bad, but it lacks 50 hp, a better range, and a top speed that's not just 150 km/h.
One wonders why Abarth didn't bring out a hybrid model, the transition would have been more acceptable to those who love the brand. The sound generator is better than nothing (or silence), but it can't replace the noise of Monza exhausts.
A new Fiat 124 would be a good idea, but we're still in a niche market, whereas Fiat offers us cars for volume.
Ah, the new 500 hybrid, maybe that's what we'll talk about tonight 😉
Fiat can offer a niche model as long as investment is limited, which means taking an existing platform (the 600e's isn't bad) and doing as much carry-over as possible. But gearshift simulation seems essential to me, otherwise an MX-5 will be untouchable. All the same, it seems to me that Fiat's image would benefit. Once the Tipo and Multipla have been renewed, the range would be fairly well covered.
That's exactly it, Abarth is the place to bring out a product like this, and why not partner with Mazda and bring out a luxury version of the Fulvia at Lancia, but given the Stellantis mentality, we're more likely to win the euromillion than that to happen one day.
Stanislas
Limited to 150km/h.... Decidedly it's all nonsense.
I can't imagine anyone thinking of using it on a racetrack. But then, some pro electricians will soon be telling us that circuits are useless and a thing of the past! Sad times!
I've heard that the speed is limited to preserve a minimum of range, as I was told when I tested the Abarth 500e.
I wonder what Carlo Abarth would think.
You mention some superb models, but you forget the fabulous X1/9, which didn't need power to distill its dose of pleasure.
A superb model indeed!
Except that the X1/9 lacked just as much power as the Montecarlo, because their chassis was designed to absorb much more. The proof was in the Bertone version of the X1/9. In Italy, many tuners put the Lampredi in it, making it a diabolical machine with a truly extravagant power-to-weight ratio. When the MonteCarlo (ex Fiat X2/20) came out, the press was unanimous: everything was perfect, except for one huge black spot that was unforgivable for a Lancia... a lack of power of around 50hp, which at the time would have enabled it to overpower virtually all its rivals.