That's it, several months after its release, I was finally able to try theAlfa Romeo Tonale. No thanks to the press service Alfa Romeo but because I need to change my compact SUV, the Tonale was at the top of the list of candidates and I tried it out at a dealer. So do I buy the Tonale? The answer is no. However, it is not a bad SUV. The explanation in my test below.
Welcome to my head as a potential customer
I'm not going to offer you a test of the Tonale as you are used to read. There are already many of them on blogs, on youtube... You won't get any unpublished pictures, fuel consumption tests, trunk pictures, etc. No, I'm going to give you instead a test in my head as a potential customer who is also passionate about the Alfa Romeo brand. As it was a trial for purchase, I didn't take the time to take pictures but it's the same Tonale as on the pictures of the Alfa Romeo press kit.
I am a "contemporary" customer of the Alfa Romeo brand. My father had an Alfa Romeo 147, I had an Alfa Romeo 159 (which I liked a lot with its qualities and its defects), an Alfa Romeo MiTo (which I still have, perfect city car), an Alfa Romeo Giulia (which I loved), and I could try an Alfa Romeo 4C, an Alfa Romeo Giulietta 150 hp, a Alfa Romeo Stelvio 280 hp and an Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio with manual transmission please.
So I was for years very piqué Alfa RomeoI had to replace my Giulia (sadly) until 2020, when there was no new Italian model in the showroom. I first went to the German competition, Audi, with the promise that the next one would be an Alfa Romeo again. Probably the Tonale because the concept had already been presented in 2019 at that time.
Then I followed the development of the Tonale: no Giorgio platform, Jeep Compass base, the PSA/FCA merger, the delay of the Tonale launch, until the presentation of the production model almost a year ago. I said to myself: "I love the look, it's an Alfa Romeo. The interior, well, I preferred the Giulia. The driving "Alfa Romeo", skeptical, with the Fiat platform".
I was still looking forward to testing the Tonale. As I was not invited to the press tests, I waited for the moment to change cars to test the Tonale. This is finally a good thing because, in real conditions, I also tested the competition at the same time.
Tonale test drive: design, interior, driving and price
As explained above, since the Giulia, I have been driving an Audi Q3 S-Line for 3 years. I had plenty of time to make my own opinion about the Deutsche Qualität. Now it's time to change the model and the candidates are Tonale (obviously) and X1, Q3, XC40 and GLA. It is well on here subject in this Tonale review: design, interior, driving and price.
The design: the most beautiful but not very customizable
Of all compact SUVs, it is certainly the most beautiful Tonale. Whether it is the Sprint, Ti or Veloce version, when you see it in real life, it is beautiful. Of course, some people will criticize some details here and there (which I could read in some tests of the Tonale) but frankly it is the most beautiful compact SUV compared to the competitors. It's a good thing, that's what we expect from an Alfa Romeo.
The only criticism I will make about the design is lack of personalization ! And no thanks to Stellantis, no thanks at all! Whereas a few years ago you could have the choice between 7 exterior colors, 5 caliper colors, 7 rim models and 4 interior colors, the customization of the Tonale is really poor. 6 colors (including white, grey and black), 2 rims, 2 colors of calipers at best (red or black) and black alcantara or black leather interior... How sad.
So here you go, will you configure it for me in black, 19″ rims, black calipers and black interior please.
The interior, the multmedia: good and bad
I get on board, and there, the doubts I had when the press photos came out are confirmed!
This is a very personal opinion but, as much as I had seen a good spectacular finish when I switched from the 159 to the Giulia, as much in the Tonale I have the feeling of a regression.
To start with the positiveThe dashboard is quite nice, the digital screen with the meters is also nice and is even better than what I have on the Audi Q3. The multimedia works well, it's fluid, it's the same as on the electric Fiat 500 but also on Maserati.
Then for the less good The door trim is not crazy with a lot of hard plastics, mirror adjustment buttons like I have on the MiTo, window buttons with any design. The center console with the gearshift is not great either, it's a bit crude, you can see the similarity with its sister the Jeep Compass, it's not very Latin. And then the Alcantara seats, you either like them or not, I don't like them. Not the Alcantara material, but the impression on the shape to see the seats of a Fiat 500X.
The ride: a compact SUV not a sporty MHEV
I was planning to take the Tonale PHEV 280hp, which is the sportiest of the range. At the test drive my dealer had only the MHEV 130 hp to offer me. Here is what I think about it.
The 130 hp MHEV is not that bad. Already the gearbox. I read a lot of bad reviews about it. I thought it was good. And yes, it's a 130hp 1.5 ton, were you expecting an F1 gearbox? The 130hp engine is good for those who have a cool ride. I feel like I'm driving a 95hp Fiat 500 with this engine for comparison. It goes up quietly to 110, it has a little more trouble to go up to 130, and that's it. The objective is not to go to the breaker with this engine.
For those who have a cool, economical driving style, the 130 hp will be sufficient. For those who want a little spice from time to time, the 160 hp will be ok too. After that, you should not expect more. These are not sporty engines. And the 7-speed automatic transmission does its job well for what we expect from this engine.
I was surprised by the management. Forget the precise steering of a Giulia or Stelvio. The Tonale offers what I currently have on the Audi Q3: smooth steering, which will once again suit those who choose the 130hp or 160hp engines. It's not a car with a sporty character so far.
Finally, always for driving, I was positively surprised by the handling. For an SUV, the Tonale doesn't crash in corners or traffic circles, and that's positive and reassuring. It's better than the Audi on this point.
I wish I could have tested the 280 hp PHEV to give you my opinion...
The price: good value for money
A very important criterion when selecting a car: its price! You want value for your money.
At first, I found the Alfa Romeo Tonale expensive compared to what I have known. The Tonale Veloce PHEV 280 is still 56000 € ! That's expensive for a Compact SUV. For comparison, in 2016, my old Giulia Super 200hp was priced at €44000.
Then I looked at competition : Q3, X1, etc. And, equivalent equipment : 19″ wheels, 360 camera, autonomous driving, etc, and well, the Tonale is very well positioned in terms of price. For comparison, with similar equipment, a BMW X1 M Sport PHEV 245 hp is at 60,000 €.
Premium compact SUVs are expensive when they are well equipped, plug-in hybrids add to the bill Since, in France, a Tonale TI 160 hp is from 43 400 €, a Tonale TI 280 is from 53 500 €. That's €10,000 more for a car with 120 hp more. Thanks to the batteries.
So, even if on paper the Tonale is a good equipment/price ratio, when you have a compact SUV that is positioned at more than 50 000 €, the premium competition is good, very good. At this price, all the details count and for me, the interior is not up to the level what I have seen at Audi or BMW.
My opinion: the Tonale, a compact premium SUV not for everyone
I am very divided concerning the Tonale. First of all it is necessary to underline a compact SUV in the range is welcome because in Europe, this is what sells a lot. It was also necessary to "take it down a notch" compared to the Giulia and the Stelvio because they were two Alfa Romeo cars that at the time were not sufficiently accessible (but that respected the Alfa Romeo DNA). It is a priori a success since the Tonale has sold well since its launch and my salesman told me that he has signed several more this month for private and professional customers.
My opinion is that the Alfa Romeo Tonale is a good compact SUV. But being positioned in the premium segment, it will not be suitable for everyone:
On the one hand, it will be able to convert MiTo and Giulietta enthusiasts, and on the other hand, the Tonale will correspond to Peugeot, Volkswagen, Skoda and Toyota customers...
...on the other hand, Giulia and Stelvio enthusiasts will feel like they are going backwards and I find it hard to believe that BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo, Lexus customers would switch to a Tonale.
You will have understood that, as far as I am concerned, after having had a Giulia, then an Audi, I have not been conquered by the Tonale. What I think it lacks, at this price: an interior worthy of a premium car that feels "wow" when you get in it, and more customization possibilities, as it used to.
- The most beautiful compact SUV ;
- A very good ratio equipment / price;
- Sound Road Handling;
- Technology / multimedia on the level.
- Not a sporty Alfa Romeo SUV in 130 hp and 160 hp;
- Price starting at 53000 € in PHEV ;
- Interior that regresses compared to the Giulia / Stelvio ;
- Lack of customization for the price.
81 CommentsLeave a Reply
This confirms what I have been saying all along. This car does not belong in the Alfa Romeo range.
As much as I like it at Dodge, it's bad for Alfa's brand image. In short, the Giulia and the Stelvio will remain the product of the firmaments and the final testament of this mythical brand. A page is turning (just like the automobile in its most noble and sensational expression).
One thing is for sure, the Alfa fan tester had only selected compact SUVs, and was driving a Q3 that is not sporty either. In other words, out of the convinced Alfa fan, this is what the segment's customers want, and apparently it works well considering the orders.
Fortunately, I have other Italian cars in my garage to enjoy but I am not a sectarian. The choice of the q3 in 2020 was made following many criteria more of reason than of passion. In the end I'm going to bmw, for 3 years again. See you in 2026 alfa Romeo...
For the Tonale, beyond the non-sporty behavior, and this is the most unacceptable point of the Tonale is that at 58,000 euros my configured model, the interior is not terrible, it's just a reality compared to the premium competition, whether German or even French with DS. The salesman didn't seem to admit it, but at some point you have to get your butt in the competition and open your eyes.
The Germanic quality is not that when you get into a Lexus Alexandre because there we are in another world question assembly and quality. Moreover I agree with Fredo on the fact that the Audi has nothing sporty (wanting to put engines with a lot of power for the category does not make up for the inconsistency of the rest, German specialties).
Lexus I have only tried the IS and the UX and yes very very very well finished. I place them in the top of the premium. After design level you have to like, is very angular.
For the audi I know it's not sporty I didn't choose it for that in 2020. I was bcp on a new alfa Romeo model to enjoy myself again.
Like what one can have a different opinion because the quality of the Quadrifoglio I find was better finished when in the M3 F30 and well above the Ghibli and the Audi.
The Ghibli, given its positioning, should have been at least as good as Lexus in terms of assembly, finish and quality of materials, whereas the first series was not the best. Reliable no problem but the interior should have deserved as much attention as the chassis and its engines. I was disappointed compared to a Quattroporte 5 of the same size!
The Grecale, there we are in the Lexus universe in every point for the interior but well above for all the rest.
That's what Alfa should have used as a basis for the continuation and especially its hybrid and not this Tonale which is more appropriate for Dodge.
It's hard to ask for sportiness from a compact SUV, even with the Biscione in front. The fact is that it offers the expected behavior, which is comfortable like all the models in the segment. From the moment the brand committed itself to it, it was sure to have this type of setting (rather healthier than that of a GLA, by the way)... And apparently what you tolerate from an Audi is not tolerated from an Alfa, that's interesting as a type of reaction, in my opinion it's because Audi is a totally lambda brand, coming from Auto Union.
The Tonale is the only new model from Alfa Romeo so yes I gave it a chance and that's why I don't keep it. And if I don't stay with Audi it's because after 3 years well it's a bit boring.
The other thing I notice is that the Peugeot fanboys were explaining that the Sochaux brand was going to teach the Milan brand how to finish, and we have to admit that the Giulia and Stelvio were more polished under FCA than this Tonale is under Stellantis.
On this they are the only ones to know but yes it's strange because at equivalent budget a peugeot or a ds is better, from my point of view, at this level. I think we will see the new stellantis on the giulia and stelvio of 2025 and 2026. In the meantime they are in-between models.
It's also the quality that has gone down and not just a little at Audi and all the customers are complaining about it. We knew that the quality of the Tonale would be a good notch below that of the Giulia because Stellantis had nothing more to bring to the table than economies of scale. The best way for Alfa to keep its status (which Maserati also obtained with the Grecale), would have been to separate Alfa and Maserati from the Deal and let them be under the control of Ferrari or to give them their independence while remaining attached to Exxor.
I am afraid that the damage to come is irreversible.
The DS may be well finished, but we don't see it and people don't like it that much!
After having massacred Citroën's image and sunk its other brands (Talbot, Simca, Sunbeam, etc...), I'm afraid that Alfa, Lancia and Abarth will be next on the list, just like Chrysler.
It is better to make limited series that are sold out (which the Italians do very well), than quantities that bring nothing (like the Tonale).
I don't want to offend anyone but this is just my point of view.
For the quality I agree. To have had the Giulia and Audi frankly Alfa Romeo had nothing to envy to the quality for the Giulia and Stelvio if it is not the multimedia which was a little late but it is all, there was that. On the other hand, I must admit that I took a little slap at bmw. It's better than audi and alfa romeo for sure, I found the same perception as when I tried the ghibili hybrid. In the end, what a pity for the Tonale not to have kept at least the level of the giulia and stelvio. But once again, this is a personal feeling as it suits the more than 20,000 buyers in Europe this year.
In this segment I don't think we will find anything sporty (even the future Alpine).
It's not a segment studied for I think. It's a global car like the compact sedans were (except for the Toyota Altezza RS200 that we never had the pleasure to have which was an absolute reference but the rest were compact sedans with sporty characters but not pure sports cars!
What would have happened to the Tonale on a Giorgio platform? We will never know...
Alas yes you are right as the Giulietta which should be on it also in shortened version.
We would have had 2 references like the Giulia and the Stelvio in their category, the Altezza RS200 in its category, the RX8 Spirit R in the 4-seater coupes or the Quattroporte V in the limousines. But as you said so well... we'll never know. In any case I cross my fingers for the BMW because it's not the top of the line in terms of reliability and we often see it come back to the garage (like many brands due to a too invasive electronic passage nowadays) which also makes default to a certain Levante, although it is in the category much superior and much sportier often comes back to the garages for electronic problems and I'm not talking about Porsche where there we border on the disaster of the kind the weekend on the road for the week in the garages. Anyway, we have to admit that real sports cars are going to become so rare that we won't be able to have fun anymore even if we respect the speed limits on a simple mountain road at night. All the cars from 2020 onwards are as sanitized as possible, except for the A110, MX5 and GR86, so let's not talk about the other categories.
Well at least I could make my own opinion on alfa, audi and bmw in new and thus say if it went well or not. I am confident in my choice and I sincerely hope that Alfa Romeo will have one or more well done in 2026.
Who will live will see, you will give us your return in due time.
I think that this Tonale will bring orders and therefore means to Alfa Romeo. I'm not worried about the fate of the Italian brands (and in particular Lancia), DS is not selling well because this brand has no legitimacy. Besides, they feel obliged to do something flashy for the Chinese, and unluckily for them, the Chinese buy Chinese. Lancia brought out the whole history of the brand in Turin, they seem to have understood. The finish will be sumptuous, tasteful (thanks to Cassina) and the lines elegant. It will therefore sell in Europe to a certain clientele that is probably tired of BMW's huge nostrils or finds the EQ bland.
If it's rebadging DS, I don't think that the old clientele will come back because they started to desert Lancia after the Chrysler transformed into a Lancia and even with the Thesis which was a mistake to release it in front wheel drive (when it was originally announced in rear wheel drive and 4WD) and it's not its very well finished interior (in the same vein as a Lexus) that changed anything.
We'll see, but I prefer to keep my feet on the ground and wait to see the result, just like with the Chrysler brand.
Some Stellantis are used to small models and not to this kind of Italian luxury product.
For that, it would be necessary to take the basis of Alfa and Maserati and not that of Fiat, Peugeot or Opel to have a luxury product for Lancia, a pure sport product for Alfa and Luxosportif for Maserati. I also fear for Abarth.
Yes, you are right, but the purchasing power is perhaps also an important factor and to that we add the malus and other taxes, which is why the choices of the customers are more and more restricted.
Ah well, forget about the price increase between 2020 and 2023... for me it's more a problem of taxation than of purchasing power. If it wasn't for the French tax system, I would have chosen a Stelvio my23 280hp and I might not have tried the Tonale...
Yes, prices have exploded even for used cars. We have never seen such a madness for decades. It's like the electrics that were supposed to go down when it's the opposite.
I hope the engine is not the Peugeot puretech. Not that it is a bad engine but it will never have the character of a real Italian engine.
Also the sunroof is missing... 🤔
It's a FCA engine
Stop systematically criticizing the new Alfa Romeo models, I have a Stelvio QV, and I found the same DNA when I tested the 130 HP model that was offered to me.
We have the right to disagree. If you are satisfied with the Tonale 130 hp, you are among the many orders in Europe. If not, read my tests of the Alfa Giulia and Stelvio and you will see that I do not criticize them negatively. I look forward to reading you again in the next news.
The Tonale has the same DNA as a Stelvio Quadrifoglio, it's highly unlikely because I don't see how they have the same DNA, the same design and the same engines and above all the same coherence of all that assembled. I might as well say it's night and day.
What to say, alfa 166 3.2 V6, alfa stelvio 210, maserati quattroporte and so on, when we tasted these few models we do not look for competition, we have an Italian heart and the group is big enough to find a shoe to fit.
What about the Tonale? Have you tried it? What do you think of it?
If you like Italian girls I invite you to follow my Instagram account there are a few.
The last Maserati Quattroporte is missed in front of 5, the 166 its defect is not to be born propulsion as the Thesis also and as the 164 and Thema.
And yet, if my garage was a little bigger, I would have added the last quattroporte gts V8 to my collection, a hell of an Italian limousine.
The Trofeo is an achievement to drive often but its line is not as harmonious as the previous version that I can't get rid of and this touch of road that it has for a limousine is divine because you think you are driving a simple sedan and never imagine having such a weight once behind the wheel.
The last one wanted to look too much at the German side and lost its status of reference which is a pity because you feel less its soul invading you at the wheel.
Precisely it is the line of the tone which pleases me less, a small stelvio would have been more judicious, I will have the occassion to try it, of other modéle arrives in the group I will wait patiently between the noise engine of my v8 v6 v5/BRAVO HGT/ 4 cylinders panda cross.
As said above I wanted a Stelvio but not compatible with French tax malus, TVS, depreciation ...
Me too, in the meantime, I listen to the sounds of my maserati, alfa, Lancia and Ducati (we are indeed on a contest of who has the biggest?)
No, not at all, sorry, I have Italian blood, I can't do better, we didn't get to the biggest one, the V12 is missing.
Hehe we will see less and less v12's...
The biggest will remain the Cizeta V16T with its 16 cylinder in V and in transverse position (a record in the automobile).
The V12 like are alas also doomed to disappear, that's why compared to Alexandre, I prefer to buy a carriage with 4 horses in front even if when they fart (methane) they are not ecological either!😂🤣
So to stay in the technical field, it seems that they pollute more when they burp than when they fart!
🤣, you made me cry with laughter for that one 😂
There will always be some left but at what price.
At Ferrari with the Purosangue and maybe the next aventador and Lamborghini... get out the checkbook
It's well on its way to being the last of the breed with the Maybachs and other Paganis.
What bothers me the most is not the interior of the tonale but the engines, between the 160 and the 280 hp it misses something, they should have kept the 1750..... a 3008 at 50000 euros makes 300 hp with a bigger engine than the 1,3 of the 280 hp tonale. Unfortunately with the standards of pollution, all the displacements higher than 1500 cm3 are going to be rare at all the manufacturers
Indeed I just went to see the 3008 225 hp starts at 50k, the 300 hp starts at 55k. And it even has the right to a red leather interior option that the alfa doesn't have, a shame!
As usual, Peugeot puts everything on its brand and leaves the others aside. Unfortunately, the mentality has not changed since the creation of this brand, resulting in a number of corpses in the closet worthy of GM in the USA. It is time for Boss Elkhan to put his foot down.
We all know what's going to happen to this Tonale in terms of motorization: it's going to switch to the 150-horsepower electric block, seen on the Abarth e500, in 2027.
I don't know about that, but I'm not for electric.
To 100% sure. In 2025, the new Giulia will be 100% electric, in 2027 this Tonale will be too. And so will the Lancia Delta.
And for the electric Stelvio 100% (the only choice available), it's in 2026. You will have the choice between rear-wheel drive and Q4 system, on STLA Large platform, with a total of 900 horsepower.
You may be right, but I don't think it's going to last long because too many people don't believe in it (Toyota and Stellantis in the lead, to name a few). Anyway, personally, I will not switch to electric, that's for sure. As long as there will be Bioethanol, I will stay in thermal and by then the current contexts may have evolved in one way or another, who knows.
Yes, moreover they should have kept the 1,5 l for the rechargeable hybrid or even the 1750 cm3 . Stellantis wants to seduce a maximum of customers, ok but they are forsaking the alfists and they are going to be at the top of their stupidity if they put their 1,2 puretoc in alfa and Lancia......they didn't understand the lesson with the Gm engines 😡
Too bad the tonale is nice, the chassis had been designed for the new vehicles of the fca group and not only for the compass as said in some reviews and considering the time that the tonale has mi to come out, we were hoping for a real temperament alfa........in a few time I will have to replace my giulietta 2,0 jtd150 and I will really be embarrassed 😞
It's clear that the 1.4 and the 1.75 FCA were more adequate in hybrid (especially considering the weight of the 1.75 all aluminum). What's missing in the Tonale is exactly what's missing in the Giulia and Stelvio for some customers which is the 4 cylinder hybrid installed in the Ghibli.
This would be an attractive entry-level model for the Giulia and the Stelvio (which would extend their life on the market) and a real difference for the Tonale, which would have to make an effort for the interior and that could differentiate it much more with its Dodge version.
Stellantis should focus more on a product comeback for Lancia and stop the massacre with DS.
The thermal engines should be left to Fiat, which has more expertise in this area than Peugeot.
We see it with the V6 Nettuno, the V6 Alfa or the inline 6 for Jeep and Dodge or the 1.4 or even the 1.75.
It should strongly lean on Chrysler by making a cross with Citroen, Chrysler and Lancia for the platform while having 3 distinct types of products.
The 1.4 and 1.75 are in my opinion from another time. They know how to do hybrids on the 1.3, 1.5 and 2.0L.
On the Tonale, they could have proposed a less powerful PHEV version with 240 hp like the Compass, less battery, less expensive, lighter. If they didn't go beyond 280 hp, it's because there must be a technical reason that we don't know about, since the electric motor makes 120 hp and the internal combustion engine 180 hp.
It's true that DS sells a little in France but badly abroad, I agree the engines should be designed at Fpt since they already make them for other brands as indicated in Wikipedia (fiat powertrain). Bmw has quickly abandoned the 1.6 l thp, as for the problem of the 1.2 puretoc do not speak about it.
For the interior of the tonale I just reproach him this central screen not integrated into the dashboard, like many other cars besides!!!
As for the giulia and stelvio, it's obvious that a 2.0 hybrid is needed to boost sales and lower the malus
Unless we get an interview with jp imparato, we won't know why these choices or rather these refusals
Ah, but I know this for a fact: the Giorgio platform was not designed for the PHEV. Period. At best mhev like on the Grecale and PHEV on the giorgio platforms adapted to the usa on the big jeeps in the usa. The mhev doesn't reduce co2 emissions enough and that's why the giulia and Stelvio will never have a PHEV version. This information is reliable and safe and comes from Italy.
Alexander is what we are officially told but even the Grecale system is welcome and there they can say nothing because it is the same platform Giorgio on the Stelvio/Grecale/Giulia.
That it does not change anything, I have a huge doubt because it was also said the same thing for the V6 Busso, that officially, we could not increase the displacement due to the iron filings found in the oil of the block and Ellegi Motori came out with versions of 3.6, 3.8 and 4.0 of 360, 420 and 460 hp without forcing that we found at Gillet with the Vertigo or on the Alfa 75 prepared.
As usual, I would say that the Italians have released a great product and abandoned it along the way and that's their specialty like Honda (NSX and S2000). There are plenty of examples like the 124, the 4C, the Lybra, the Duetto from 2000, etc...!
Toyota is able to release a model for 10 to 15 years and make it evolve every year, they were able to do the same (and they announced to take example on Toyota precisely at its release) for the 500 and it worked as it is not allowed. So it's not the products that we should question sometimes... but the management of the parent company which was often unfortunately at Fiat and FCA beside the plate as it was the case of Artega and its GT which passed under the nose of Marchionne who wanted it for a pittance because of its German origin (just the brand because the chassis was English and its Danish designer) which would have made a nice testament for the Busso (other than the crap of DSG gearbox and its VR6 3.6 which failed twice at 45.000km and 90.000km and was never able to produce more than 260hp).
So the more time goes by, the more this Italian-American-French marriage smells like a rat race and until the USA decides to recover its independence with the Giorgio platform as a bonus, it will be the best!
Fiat has created a huge feat in the agricultural sector by buying up many brands from all over the world and keeping its focus for decades (number 1 in the world).
Believing that the marriage with Peugeot will bring the same benefits looks more and more like a heresy that will capsize sooner or later because the French have trouble seeing beyond the end of their nose and are too conservative.
I would have preferred to see them marry with Mazda or another Japanese brand, or just a simple alliance with PSA.
As for the Giulia, by putting a 3 cylinder instead of a 4 for the hybrid or even a twin cylinder, I don't think it will prevent hybridization. They simply don't want to get off their asses as usual because in retro lift we adapt batteries on old thermal cars with a chassis not designed for that as it is the case for a simple twingo 1.
My source is an italian engineer who works on engines in Modena and not the communication department, we can't do better! At best on Stelvio and Giulia we would have had mhev. The PHEV has been studied but, I quote his words "packaging issue".
The MHEV would have done the Giulia and the Stelvio some good and would have shown that they wouldn't have abandoned such great products as they did with the 4C and the 124. But no, it's a disease in Italy, let's go out and zap....!
The Americans will be able to enjoy this great platform (Jeep) when we will still have machines that do not make you want to stay!
I would have stayed only 10 years with the Italians after having been an addict to the Alfa 75 and the RZ.
According to eng. Binda, team-lead of all V6 program in 90-00th, old V6 was (re)designed in 80th by eng. Piccone's team as a no much more than 3.0-liter.
It was converted in transverse position and got 4V heads a bit later in 80th, by the same team.
Max. allowed stroke in this block is 78 mm, due to it's width in crank area. Max. allowed bore is 93 mm, due to block width in the cylinders area, providing a sufficient material thickness in the V-intersection, and sufficient cooling channels volume around iron wet liners.
Which leads us to max. volume of 3.2l, with sufficient cooling and good reliability. Exactly like in production 3.2 "Lanati-Binda" V6 from 2002 and later.
According to eng. Lanati, chief of Alfa engine development in 90-00-th, custom engines wth 97-102 mm bore (3.5-3.8) are too weak in block rigidity and have no sufficient cooling for the long-term reliability required in production cars.
With a compression ratio of 10.5:1 due to octane knock-limit of widespread 95 gasoline, you will end up with approx. 95 Nm per liter.
Bearing in mind requirements of having good idle quality and acceptable low and midrange torque, in a case when we not using any VVT device, and dealing with fixed phase camshafts, we will end up with approx. 90% of max. torque at highest RPM.
Finally, a reliable long-term RPM limit of hydraulic lash adjusters is about 6800.
So you will end up with 3.2l x 95 Nm/l x 0.9 x 6800 = 186 kW or about 250 PS.
To get marginally more torque, you can increase compression ratio, say to 11:1, but sadly with a 98 petrol as a minimum.
To get more power, say 300 PS, you should rev it more, eliminating hydraulic lash adjusters, like BMW did with M-engines, or Honda with their top VTEC engines. But it's no go for everyday comfort-oriented car, like 166 or 159.
Naturally, you should build such a revvy 3.2 engine separately, in small series only, which is pretty costly.
Note that you easily get the same 300 PS with a low pressure (and low-lag) supercharging of a regular 3.2, keeping it's hydraulic lash adjusters, and base 95 petrol. With much better low RPM torque, and better tractability.
Peugeot's engines have never been wonders and often they are of a prehistoric age as can be seen on all their cars throughout history.
It's like their return to endurance racing that smells of sulfur once again, their famous V10 in F1, the V6 PRV, the V6 ES9 and so on. When we see that the last propulsion is ... the 504 coupe! The mass is said, whereas Renault had more courage on this side (R5 Turbo, Spyder, Clio V6).
In short, apart from the Maserati Quattroporte, the Ghibli, Levante and Grecale, the Alfa Giulia, Stelvio and 4C, as well as the 124 GT for Italians (see the Hyena at Lancia), I prefer to go back to the Japanese. Here we go again with the delusions of a future that won't make enthusiasts want to share a platform that has no place in the world.
Sad car world that goes out the back door.
Hello, I have had an Alfa 33, 75, 155, 2x 156, Gt, 147 and I have just ordered a Tonale hybrid rechargeable so I consider myself an "Alfist".
Like a large majority of buyers or future buyers I don't ask so many questions.
1- I like the exterior line, so I go and see it in a showroom.
2- I like the interior so I ask around a bit more and try it on. It suits him.
3- The price and the equipment suit me.
4- I buy.
Here I think that the majority acts like this and that the platform is called Giorgio or Jean....
Thank you for the site and your information that I follow regularly.
Hello and I am happy for your purchase. As I said it is not a bad suv and it finds its customers! You fit the first target I mentioned in my test.
No, it's not the Giorgio platform (initiated by the Giulia), but the new one from which Jeep was the first to benefit and which replaced the Tipo.
There are many things that are talked about: the allegedly bad finish of Alfa cars, an old refrain from the French auto press. Having been in a Tonale, I have not noticed any
finish supposedly not up to the level of the competition. I still have a Giulietta Veloce, now of old design, without ever having experienced the slightest problem with the finish. Even if it is obvious that the Giulia has made a leap forward, to the point of having nothing to envy to any BMW or Audi.
Then to say that the 130 and 160 horsepower engines of the Tonale are quiet and not sporty, is to push an open door. I would like to know what is sporty about BMW, Audi or Mercedes, apart from the M, RS or AMG models respectively? So Alfa Romeo is being criticized for having models that are not exclusively high-performance?
It's strange that no one ever says that about German cars, even though they are often a pain in the ass to drive, except for the M, RS, or AMG models. So we only want to see Quadrifoglio or GTA models at Alfa Romeo?
Alfa Romeo needs to make volume, like the competition, the Tonale and other future SUVs are there for that, since the demand is for SUVs. Even with non-sporty models, but which can be pleasant, and not only aesthetically (for the time Alfa Romeo is the genius of design, without competition).
I, the first one, rage when the press talks about poor finish in an Italian. I allow myself to be demanding on the Tonale because I had a giulia, I still went up in my q3 sline this morning and I still looked at the pictures of the bmw and I confirm that for a Tonale PHEV has more than 50 000 euros It is light at the level of the used materials. But I also agree that the giulia and stelvio are largely at the level of the germans. For the Tonale it's not a problem of plastic assembly but of materials from the front to the back where we expect more for this price, for a Tonale mhev at 40k it's fine. For the sportiness I agree the q3 is boring that's why I do not renew and I look for more sporty. The mhev as I said in the test is very good if you don't have a sporty driving style, it's on the same level as the q3 on this point and it will suit many people. I may be the only one to say that the mhev and the 7 box is ok as long as you don't expect sportiness from this suv.
The difference between Alfa Romeo and BMW, Audi or Mercedes, is that they are generalists called "prenium" and "sporty" vehicles.
Alfa is not a "prenium" brand but make "PURE SPORT" cars. The Giulia Quadrifoglio, GTA GTAm (lacking the GTAc), the Stelvio Quadrifoglio and the 4C are perfect examples of this and I don't find their interiors old-fashioned because the less there is in a sports car... the better and the GTA (better than the GTAm) shows how much German cars usurp the name of sport (especially the Z4 and R8) but Alfa has broken the mould by showing once again that gaining a lot of weight is better than adding enormous power (total inconsistencies on the whole).
3/4 of the French blogs or magazines are financed by German groups (VAG) and if they don't describe them as the winner, they are forbidden their cars and access to them (yes, that's the deutsche qualitat... of my butt. This is also the reason why they all say that the 911 is better
compared to the Cayman, while the GT4 in real life blows away any GT3 and GT3 RS.
The best interior quality is found at Lexus but they will dare to say that Audi does better, it's to die laughing when you see that customers are fed up with Audi for a while (especially international organizations), just like Porsche whose interiors are less polished than Lexus and spend their time in breakdowns (reason why German cars are nicknamed weekend cars because during the week it's in the garages because of all the problems that are never solved and their cars are stashed under tarpaulin).
The Tonale is a good product for Dodge 20/20 but for Alfa it would be better to have a Levante in the hyper sport version and less heavy and especially with less gadgets and a Ghibli in the same vein light and ultra sport version.
Alfa by definition are products that are not found at Ferrari but are in the same vein. This is what bothers me about the Tonale in the first place.
I'm sorry but everybody find the Giulia too expensive and the Stelvio too. Well I say no and even they are given and not expensive enough!!! but they should have released in limited series/year and that in V6 and make the 4 cylinder version under Lancia with a different body in limited series too and release a station wagon and a raised station wagon in both brands.
The Ghibli V6 and V8 at Alfa and V6 and 4 cylinders at Lancia instead of going down the Maserati line.
The Grecale is beautiful but has no business being at Maserati and represents what the Lancia SUV should be in all its glory.
The more you limit the number of copies per year, the better the sales and profits.
Alfa and Lancia must remain dream brands like Ferrari and be the gift of a lifetime.... The 8C, the 33, the Montreal or the RZ and SZ are the perfect examples like the Hyena at Lancia or the Stratos and 037.
There is no point in listening to the press of any kind in France because they are like television channels... [moderation] if you look at the foreign ones (the Swiss for example for those who speak or read only French and well the Giulia and the Stelvio as well as the Grecale are all on top and are the references).
I agree with Switzerland for the marriage with a French manufacturer, moreover psa where now it's full of brands that walk on each other.....me too I always thought that Fca should have bought or allied like Renault nissan with mazda or suzuki (too late for mitsu which is with nissan now), they could have taken advantage of the Japanese platforms for the suv and provide good engines to the Japanese and even thus develop in more countries
Exactly and as FIAT once hesitated with Mazda, it's ruined because they were seduced by Toyota.
I don't understand why FIAT wanted to marry with GM, Renault or PSA, while Mazda was the perfect bride who is the perfect symbiosis between an Alfa and a Lancia.
We're going to bite our fingers off, but fortunately we'll have the 4C, the 8C, the Giulia and the Stelvio as our testament, and if I were a millionaire I'd have a Lancia Phedra made on the basis of the Grecale, a Thesis and a Giuliana on the basis of the Ghibli (4WD and Trofeo) as well as a Thema on the basis of the Giulia 4WD.
The worst mistake was even to have sold Magneti Martelli which was a jewel not to be disposed of.
It's clear 😉
The worst thing is that I believe that electrification is the best thing that can happen to this model (to the brand, and especially to the engine manufacturers and subcontractors, not at all considering the job losses), which will have an immediate response to acceleration without the malus that goes with it. Alfa will still have to calibrate the steering so that it is much more consistent in Dynamic mode - and it's perfectly possible to find the sensations of a Giulia in this respect thanks to the electronics - so that everyone is happy (families will drive in Efficient mode), and above all, offer better seats with at least one tobacco-colored "vegan leather" interior and another in cream alcantara. You can't compromise on this point when you claim to be a premium brand, especially with the network of subcontractors available in Italy. The other point is the dealer of a brand with a "sporting heart" who only has the entry-level engine of a brand new model to test drive...
When I see the stitching on the alcantara on the side of the front seats, it's just not possible at this price level...
It might be very difficult to reproduce an electric Giulia with all the positive points that a Quadrifoglio can bring, I doubt it very much but I'm not Madame Soleil or Irma. For the moment, the electrics leave a too artificial taste in the driving, so it could be a big obstacle.
I just went to see the X1, I took a slap too... It's very luxurious but what an ugly tank, right now at BMW they are outdoing themselves!
The problem of BMW is the design because apart from the Z1, Z3 and Z8, the first 840&50, the M5 of the late 90's early, the M3 E46 and the F30, the design are ignoble and it only gets worse now. We can't say that it really makes you want to drive!
At BMW, I tried the E46 and the 850 and well I spent more time in the garages (and when the mechanics saw me arrive with the 850 CSI they ran away) than on the road. Not only did they cost me a fortune but I sold them at a loss!
The F30 I was able to compare it to the Giulia and well there is no photo, the finish has nothing to envy, the exterior and interior design supplants it, as a bonus the V6 and is more linear, we do not feel the turbos while on the M3 it's ON / OFF (for the precision we'll repass) and its road holding on mountain road where the BMW M3 wallows frankly!
A sedan that is as good as the Toyota Altezza RS200, much better than the BMW and equal to the Giulia but less powerful (you rarely lift your foot and the precision of the front and rear axle is downright surgical as on the Giulia and make it two 4-seater karting like the RX8 R3 Spirit R).
I've finally figured out what's been bothering me about this model since it went to production - besides being an SUV and burying the long-awaited Giulietta - is that it's ten centimeters longer than the concept, and that throws it completely off balance.
The problem is that now nobody wants to propose a compact and prefer to put "Tanks" without interest instead.
On a personal level, the automotive world is going too far wrong!
Recently, for the new models that have just arrived on the market, except for the GR86 and the Grecale, no car makes me want to buy it, maybe the Suzuki Jimny 5 doors but we will never see it here!
At least I know in advance that I'll only be looking at used models.
Not only do I leave the electrics to others but I will never buy into the all SUV!!!
So yes, the 5-door Jimny you will have soon, in electric 😉
Apparently not the new one released a few days ago will remain in thermal and will not be sold in Europe.😭
faithful to the group fiat 600 ,128,132 then at Alfa giulietta ,155, 159 and then passage towards company car BMW 320 and 520. To the pension I returned to the diesel giulietta with a hope alas top long of waiting for the Tonale.
Currently I drive a Jaguar E pace HSE diesel 150awd. magnificent car "class" and reliable and maintenance at reasonable rate. It will be ordered by the dogmatism of the crazy ELECTRIFYERS!
After testing tonale 130hp I am really disappointed !!!!