Alexandre
Alfa Romeo is preparing to launch its first B-SUV, one size down from the Tonale, which will also be the Italian brand's entry-level model. The name and launch date of this new vehicle were revealed by the brand's CEO, Jean Philippe Imparato, during an interview at the Auto Epoca show in Bologna.
An Italian name for a compact SUV
Long known as the Brennero and for the moment dubbed Kid, the name of Alfa Romeo's future B-segment SUV will be announced in December 2023, confirmed Imparato. It will be an Italian name, which will be part of the history and tradition of the Biscione brand. Imparato declared that he and his team were still mulling over the name, but that it was almost time to reveal it to the public.
A game-changing #SportyUrbanVehicle is on the horizon. What will be the name of our new Alfa Romeo? Take a guess in the comments below 👇🏻 #AlfaRomeo pic.twitter.com/xVGEgS12UL
- Alfa Romeo (@alfa_romeo) June 7, 2023
As we already know, this new compact SUV from Alfa Romeo will be produced on the CMP platform, which is shared with other models from the Stellantis group, such as the Jeep Avenger and the Fiat 600. It will be manufactured at the Tychy plant in Poland, where these two models are already produced.
Initially offered as a 100 % electric model, a hybrid thermal version, Peugeot Puretech 100 hp enginewill also be in the catalog
Launch scheduled for April 2024
The Alfa Romeo CEO also confirmed that the brand's new SUV would make its debut in April 2024. It will be the first model in a renewed range, with a new identity, which will see the arrival of a new model every year or so, the Stelvio in 2025, then the Giulia in 2026. Imparato declared that this SUV was a project close to his heart since he took over at Alfa Romeo.
Alfa Romeo's new B-SUV will be responsible for attract new customers to the brand, and appeal to those who appreciate historic models such as the Giulietta, MiTo and 147. It will be a premium model, reflecting Alfa Romeo's typical style and performance.
We'll soon discover the Italian name of the future, as we await the official design photos. the latest leaked photos are far from unanimous...
an alfa with a puretech engine...sacrilege is as good as putting castelvin in a bottle of petrus...
An all-electric version identical to the Jeep Avenger, e-2008, and Fiat 600e, and just a 100-horsepower puretech hybrid combustion engine - what a shame!
When you buy an Alfa, you expect a minimum of performance.
As for seducing those who've had a MiTo and a Giulietta like me, there's no risk of that. I'm not looking for a real calf, with the added look of a Citroën if the photos that are circulating correspond to reality.
As the owner of a 1964 Bertone coupé, needless to say, Alfa is nothing but a name to me... The heirs are unworthy of the brand's history...
So a 3-cylinder puretoc 100hp to seduce those who drive a 2.0 l jtd or multiair 150, 170 or tbi 240 hp🤔🤔🤔🤔
They must have gone to marketing school.
It's crystal clear... I'm looking to change my giulietta, and I think this brand is definitely dead to me...
Because when you see the price of a fiat 600 and an avenger (which still have their own identity...), you can expect the worst from this alpha...
Over 40k for 156 hp in electric, and playskool plastics all over the cabin, no thanks...
And the latest shots seem to show a complete break in design...
In short, I'm still hopeful. But, this group is looking to make massive profits, while trying to pass itself off as saviors and enthusiasts, I find pathetic...
As for the use of the puretech (which is a dung without a name with its belt that disintegrates, even if the overhaul of this engine should be driven by a chain in 2024), I don't see the point, the latest 1.5 firefly is so superior, even the 1.3 firefly is.
Imparato, who says that the B-SUV will appeal to those who've had a MiTo or Giulietta. But I'm one of them, and if this Alfa's design and powertrains are this lame, I'll turn away from new Alfa Romeos.
Instead of concentrating on the customers who bought the 147 and Giulietta, we'd rather see them go to the competition! Just thinking about it gives me the creeps 🥺
To hell with your plugs! We want real engines..... also diesels .
I think we have to wait and see. I now own a Giulietta QV. I hope and demand that this BSUV also comes with a powerful version. Probably dual electric motor. A bit like the new MG4 xpower. If it offers also beautiful Italian interior and has a drive to match I probably will buy one. I am more positive about the leaked exterior images than some others. But we dont know if they are real and a lot about this car is still unclear.
Alfa Romeo Fiasco seems just the thing...
Alas Fredo it's exactly that. I'm depressed as hell. All they have to do now is bring out the Alfa electric scooter and we'll hit rock bottom... we'll dig to see if we can do any worse!
I don't even know what to think anymore, we've hit rock bottom!
When will we see the Alfa Romeo moped and scooter? Why not... we're not quite so stupid anymore.
Between that and the 1.5 billion they've thrown out the window for electric garbage cans made in China... they'd have been better off investing it in a Lancia/Alfa/Maserati D-SUV and the sedans that go with it, or investing it in Chrysler, which is in an induced coma, or bringing out a Lancia/Chrysler/Alfa/Dodge platform for a compact hybrid rear-wheel drive.
Gone are the days of Alfa Romeo's splendid engines, which enjoyed a magnigious reputation. Starting in 2025, Alfa Romeo is going all 100 % electric. The group is making huge savings by trying to launch a B-SUV on the same Peugeot 2008 platform and with the famous Peugeot 1.2 Puretech engine block, which has a very poor reputation for reliability. Frankly, it's shameful that they're trying to sell us this. They're not selling us an Alfa Romeo. We're being sold a Peugeot 2008 with an Alfa Romeo interior and exterior. We've hit rock bottom. The same goes for the presentation of the Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale, which was simply a mock-up with a 40 km/h electric motor. At present, there are no 33 Stradale prototypes. The definitive models will be ready in early 2025.
2025 will clearly be the end of combustion engines.
Except that all the customers ordered a 33 thermal... except one, who will have the right to withdraw or go hang himself because no one will buy him back.
I don't necessarily agree, because the 33 Stradale is a collector's item. And surely great to drive.
Yes, but certainly not electric.
I'm an Alfa Romeo fan, but if this is going to be a repeat of the Tonale, I'll pass.... The Giulia and Stelvio seem to be the last models worthy of the brand....
Thank you for this
The Tonale isn't up there with the Stelvio. But the lines are good, and among compact SUVs I find it better than the competition. With other engine choices, it would be very good. It's still an Alfa Romeo that deserves to be.
And with the existing electrification of the rear wheels in the PHEV version, it would be easy to convert it to a simple rear-wheel drive hybrid based on the Honda system, while reducing battery weight and cost (and offering more interior finishes?). Better handling and more power without excessive penalties. All to the good...
The tonale is the last alfa/fiat. It still fell through the cracks of the merger with psa, at least the 1st models with fiat or alfa engines. The next ones won't be Alfa at all. The choice to make it a generalist manufacturer simply goes against the grain in the age of Asian competition. Given the number of brands in the group, they should have made it a customizable sports brand with a small range, as has been the case for some years.
Mistletoe
Thank you for intervening with such a sensible and constructive discourse, because when it's me who writes this I'm taken for a fool, whereas this is the ultimate solution to save Alfa, Lancia and Maserati and by limiting the number of examples in order to have more demand than supply, which also helps to support the used car market.
I agree that Alfa Romeo should be a sporty brand with models that stand out from the rest of the production, but I don't agree with the weak range. Alfa's difficulties in recent years are due to the fact that there was only the Giulia and the Stelvio, which was too narrow a choice (with sales too low, even though the Giulia is by far the best sedan in its class). Extending the range is a good thing, provided Alfa Romeo remains a specific brand rather than a generalist.
Except that between this SUV and VAN, I don't think they're suitable products, whereas a sedan above and its SUV counterpart would be necessary for Lancia and Alfa. It's not a problem to limit the range (but you need a Giulietta to match the tonale, which needs a sportier engine and handling).
As Guy pointed out, these 3 brands need a range that can be customized as desired and with no limits, because it's exactly this kind of product that this type of clientele appreciates, and it's thanks to the Giulia and the Stelvio that the purists have returned, as sales of the quadrifoglio, GTA and GTAm versions (the GTAc is all that's missing) attest. Leaving Alfa with its V6, Lancia with the old Maserati V6 and Maserati with the Nettuno... that's the solution (bearing in mind that they can be prepared for petrol, ethanol, diesel and other synthetic fuels).
We're beginning to see that electric is a failure, because in the USA alone, we've gone from 80% ready to sign up to 30%... a nasty pie. Over 50% of customers who bought electric cars have gone back to thermals.
What's more, since France is Europe's new dictatorship, there's no point in investing a single penny... all the manufacturers who still make combustion engines and are successful worldwide are leaving at breakneck speed.
It's not Europe, but France, that decides on the malus system that increases the tax burden on more powerful cars every year. To the point of making them difficult to sell, and at the same time forcing people to buy hybrids or electric cars.
What's more, market and consumer demand is for fewer and fewer sedans, and more SUVs. It's a pity, but it's a major trend. Purists are all very well, but I think they only represent a very small proportion of car buyers.
The official date for the switch to electric vehicles is 2035, 12 years from now, while automakers seem to have 2025 in mind.
I didn't know that electric car sales were falling in the USA.
I didn't say the problem comes from Eirope, but from France.
See for the USA:
https://youtu.be/HkJZfWNzfeg?si=eS3HLi4VSJ0Z29fd
Thanks for the link. Indeed, apart from Tesla buyers, other drivers don't buy electric cars.
Electric cars should be limited to urban and short-distance journeys, provided you have a home charger. Which is not the case for the vast majority of people, unless they have a house and can easily install a charging station if they so wish.
VAG Group in Europe went from 300,000 electrics to 150,000.
Electric alliances are quickly unravelling, as in the case of Honda and GM.
BID is overtaking Tesla in electric vehicles, and Tesla is going under because of its cybertruck, which is a fiasco and becoming Elon Musk's nightmare.
And we're not going to talk about Stellantis, which has invested 1.5 billion in electric dustbins made in China.
I have read (here : https://media.volkswagen.fr/volkswagen-group-enregistre-une-hausse-de-45-de-ses-livraisons-de-vehicules-entierement-electriques-au-cours-des-neuf-premiers-mois-de-2023/) that VAG had delivered over 530,000 BEV models worldwide in the first nine months of 2023, up 45% on 2022. Europe - especially for electric vehicles - is by far its biggest market, where more than 60% of these models (340,000) were sold over the period. Alfa Romeo is a European brand and most of its customers are located there, even if the USA is an important market. Today, internal combustion engines still make up the majority of sales, but the share of electrics is increasing, not collapsing (we'll have to wait and see with the next figures, and good luck to Alexandre in getting them). At the very least, I think it's wise to follow BMW's lead and offer a choice of engines. In fact, this is Maserati's choice within the group. This means offering a Quadrifoglio (track versions don't really make sense for SUVs) thermal and electric version of each model, as long as there is demand (the malus having a major impact in France). Coming back to VAG, I think sales are lower than expected (but we'd be happy to see Alfa sell half a million vehicles a year) because the models are simply not up to scratch: too heavy, not efficient enough, with recharging too slow, they simply don't offer the experience of their combustion equivalents. The STLA Large platform seems to me to be much more suitable (the "Brennero" platform is already obsolete), enabling us to dispense with the home charger and fill up every 500 km of driving in a negligible amount of time.
That's not what VAG says at all:
"From a level of 300,000 at the start of the year, this order book now has 150,000 vehicles to produce, which represents a fall of 50%! These orders have fallen in France and Italy, but especially in Germany, where the decline is 60%."
It's hard to say whether these disappointing results can be explained by a slowdown in the general market or, more specifically, by products that aren't attracting enough customers in a highly competitive environment. One thing is certain: the €25,000 ID.2 city car is eagerly awaited to improve Volkswagen's electric car sales figures. Alas, it won't arrive until 2025.
It's there in black and white!
Volkswagen executives point to a slowdown in the market, new competition from Chinese automakers and rising interest rates to explain this dramatic drop in orders.
And it wasn't Stellantis who announced 11 billion in losses, but VAG, because their electrical group is such a fiasco that they're turning to the Chinese for platforms and asking the Chancellery to once again pay off VAG's debts, or going to China to weep, because if China becomes a flop for VAG, the group will definitely collapse!
What VAG is really announcing is what is written in its press release on the page I linked to in my previous post. Deliveries for BEVs increased by 45% over the first 9 months of the year (Q3 up sharply), but that's not enough for shareholders who had anticipated a much higher increase. I'd tell them that Tesla wasn't built in a day, that their customers (the ones most likely to buy a car from the group) are above all drivers of internal combustion models, and that they still have a lot of work to do before they can offer an equivalent experience in 100% electric. In short, they should let their teams work on strengthening them and improving their products, instead of firing people to satisfy the stock market in the short term. As an aside: with inflation, the general public no longer has 45,000 euros to spend on a new car, they could optimize their existing factories instead of building new ones all the time just to imitate the gigafactories...
To say that VAG hasn't announced that it's lost more than 50% of its sales in Europe while you're trying to make us swallow the snake because you're talking about electrics that are also in partnership with Chinese brands, that's strong coffee because you can distort that as you like,
We're going from 300,000 in Europe to 150,000 as it says in black and white!
The article on Volkswagen and its ID models proves that switching its entire range to electric means driving into the wall, and honking the horn.
Carmakers haven't understood that electric cars and practicality go hand in hand.
Personally, I don't own a house, and for the parking lots in my building, it will take years for them to decide to install charging stations. I'd have to drive around to find an available terminal in the street, while leaving my car to deteriorate outside. Added to this, the car's insufficient range means that I can't drive without having to stop for 30 minutes each time to recharge, and I can't get off the freeways. Getting around isn't supposed to be a hassle! Maybe I'll buy an Abarth 500e one day, but I'll wait until it's practical and has a better range.
There is a problem that people like Fredo forget, alas, very quickly. When you fill up your tank with fuel last time it doesn't evaporate, whereas a battery 🪫 whatever the product (car, laptop, computer, etc....) when it's not in use loses its charge little by little and degrades over time, making it impossible to have a full recharge, and at some point you have to go through the replacement stage, and given the price of batteries for electric cars, it's like laptop batteries... they're so expensive that it makes you wonder whether it's better not to change vehicles altogether.
If the German state didn't once again put its hand in the wallet to save them (it's been 2 times, and with all the lawsuits waiting for them, it's not over yet), they'd be on the verge of bankruptcy, because Bugatti has cut them off from a huge amount of money (to the point of selling the baby to Rimac), and it's well on the way to being forced to sell Ducati and Bentley (which will end up either Chinese or Mercedes), or even Lamborghini, because the German state has clearly stipulated that this is the last time it will plug the holes (11 billion is a pain in the butt), and if China decides to stop buying VAG or Audi... it's certain death, because even the so-called Ford-based pickup (just change 2 or 3 components) is being steamrollered by the Ford, GM and Ram, Toyota and Nissan that are leading the way.
Further proof that VAG is doing just fine, Fredo:
https://youtu.be/4vhIl0o8BtI?si=MdljXanBXDMEVAny
Clearly, battery sales are in the doldrums, as the Octane video demonstrates.
Orders for the Volkswagen ID fell by 50%, and the Fiat 500e production line came to a standstill due to a lack of orders. The public doesn't want these cars because they're too expensive and a pain to recharge. And I'm not talking about the lack of driving pleasure of these overweight electric cars. They're just moving things around, nothing more.
Maybe at some point manufacturers will realize that abandoning combustion engines is a recipe for disaster?
It's going to be a big clean-up among automakers, and some brands are not going to survive.
Stanislas
I can't even imagine what a massacre the all-electric Maserati Quattroporte will be.
I can feel the fiasco coming on!
In short, Alfa/Lancia/Maserati will end up 6 feet under.
All you have to do is read the official source and not confuse completed deliveries with future orders. The order book will fill up if VAG lowers its prices, and Alfa and Peugeot should soon start to worry about that (the electric 308 at over 40,000 euros is only there to make up the numbers, even with all its qualities). There's a moderately-priced electric market, to which Fiat responds well, and right at the top there's one where buyers don't care about price and prefer combustion engines, which also have their faults, breakdowns, oil changes that are sometimes prohibitively expensive, and engines that break down or flush out more or less quickly depending on how they're treated. And then there's the CAFE issue, which affects all manufacturers who tinker more or less well to limit their emissions. So there's a whole market where electrification is essential, and in my opinion, Alfa is right in the middle of it, because it has to be able to offer 200 to 300 hp at entry level, while keeping penalties to a minimum. The anemic Tonale and its possible compact sedan counterpart are the exact consequence: with internal combustion, it's an impossible equation. In the electric segment, Tesla has taken over the entire market to date (the Model 3 has sold almost twice as much as the 4 Series, i4 and 3 Series combined, and I'm not talking about the Giulia).
The future order book?
Divide by 2 for this year.
-Factory closures for virtually all European brands on a temporary basis, or outright factory resale.
-Request for government funding to support the automotive industry in Europe.
No, VAG has announced that it cannot lower its prices under threat of bankruptcy.
-500 is in free fall.
-Stellantis sells its factories in China to Donfgeng.
-Tesla is being overtaken this year by BYD and will be in a catastrophic position because of its cybertruck (Elon has announced that he has dug his own grave because of this product).
-Increased sales of PHEVs for Japanese brands, who are deserting France because we've hit rock bottom in terms of dictatorship.
development of several brands in hydrogen and synthetic fuel (mainly waste-based, which is great news for the planet).
A permanent fiasco for all brands selling or advertising all-electric vehicles.
-Tesla lowers prices but profits plummet.
So, yes, Maserati, Alfa and Lancia may be afraid to go all electric, and that's why so many brands, and even countries, are going backwards.
Tesla had leaked the figure of 2 million pre-orders for its cybertruck, and then we learned that the vehicle would not be a car but a heavyweight, would weigh an awful lot and would be a long way from Musk's promises of an affordable price. At Airbus, they know a thing or two about this too: orders can be cancelled or reordered, depending on a number of factors, including price, economic conditions and the actual performance of the product. The truth is that, if we rely on ACEA communications (and why shouldn't they be reliable?), the share of sales of new 100% electric models is rising steadily, and is permanently outstripping that of diesel with almost 15% (9.5% in January), while hybrid models are at over 27% (34% for petrol). Carmakers love to complain and make others pay for their slates, but the fact is that we're in the 14th month of growth, admittedly 2022 was very bad but now it's okay, the sector pays record dividends year after year, at some point they have the right to invest in models, teams and research. That's what Kia/Hyundai did, what BYD is doing. It can't be Christmas every day. Otherwise we end up with this type of Alfa Romeo B-SUV, which is reduced to a Biscione badge.
No, I'm sorry, but the number of sales of electric vehicles isn't going up, it's going down, or else in the USA, they were ready to sign for 80% and now it's not even 30%, and over 50% people who bought electrics are going back to combustion engines???? BYD is doing extremely well... on the Chinese and Russian markets, but on other markets it's virtually Nada!
Don't confuse pre-ordering, as with the Cybertruck, with actual orders (which are totally different). No, there's a reliability problem with electric cars, because the problem doesn't come from the vehicle (although all electronics are a fiasco, and no one can escape them), but the very concept of the battery is unreliable, because, as we've already said, it loses power and recharging capacity over time, deteriorates with rapid charging, has a limited lifespan due to extreme heat and low temperatures, takes far too long to charge, and announced developments never come to pass. In short, those who want electric vehicles are free to do so, but there are far too many of us who don't want to hear about them, and who are aware of all the obstacles they face compared with combustion engines. For the time being, no passenger transport company is taking the plunge, and all those who have tried have backed down, even in buses.
Anyway, there's no point in announcing the name because Fredo has already guessed it.... Alfa Romeo Fiasco 1 and for the rest of the range just add the next number, 2,3,4,etc...!!!!
To hell with your plugs! We want real engines..... also diesels .
I'm still amazed that we've chosen Energy as the first vector of savings. In a house, they say you have to insulate first. With cars, we've decided that weight isn't a problem, even though it's responsible for the consumption of any kind of energy. 2t to transport 75kg is an aberration. Air penetration and ground friction coefficients are also out of fashion, even though they were in the 60s and 70s.
So to present the electric car as an ecological gain is an outright lie.
What's more, this lie is responsible for mass unemployment in Europe. But our incompetent elites are going to do a retro-mill after creating a tsunami. Our president's famous "j'aime la baniole" ("I love cars") is the result of the enarques' realization that their comments were playing into the hands of the Chinese, and condemning our European carmakers in the process. Before putting an end to combustion engines, it would have been much better to legislate on weight (1t max, then 900kg ...), which would have pushed forward technological progress on laterals and processes, while having a very positive impact on fuel consumption without killing the industry. From a safety point of view, lower mass means less energy and less energy storage.
Now the battle for volume is over, and it's the Chinese who are going to win it, too. To come back to Alfa, one of the Group's only brands with a niche positioning, the choice of starting from a logic of volume is an aberration.
At best, the brand will compete with the group's other brands without bringing a different vision or product to the table.
You've summed it all up, there's nothing more to say and we always come back to the very basis of the 2 automotive rules.
Weight is the enemy, surface the obstacle.