Alexandre
The plant Fiat in Tychy, Poland, has seen better days. In 2009, it produced almost 500,000 vehicles, mainly Fiat 500s and Lancia Ypsilons, which were a great success on the European market.
Today, production has fallen to around 160,000 units a year, and its two flagship models are nearing the end of their useful lives. The new electric Fiat 500 is now made in Italy, and the future Lancia Ypsilon will be produced in Spain, at the Stellantis plant in Zaragoza.
To revive its business, the Polish plant is betting on three new models, all small SUVs: the Jeep Avenger, the Fiat 600and the future Alfa Romeo B-SUV. These three vehicles share the same components (platform and powertrains), reducing production costs and increasing flexibility.
The Jeep Avenger is designed to compete with the Opel Mokka-e, Peugeot e-2008 or DS3 in the urban SUV segment. The Fiat 600 is a modernized version of the legendary Italian city car. As for the Alfa Romeo B-SUV, it's aa sportier SUV, photos of which have leaked onto the Internet (and debate). It will be the biscione brand's first compact SUV, targeting a more upscale clientele.
For your information, below is our family comparison chart.
| Jeep Avenger | Fiat 600 | Alfa Romeo BSUV Kid | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Length | 4,08 m | 4,17 m | 4,1 m |
| Battery | 54 kWh | 54 kWh | 54 kWh |
| Engine | Emotors M3 | Emotors M3 | Emotors M3 |
| Power | 156 hp (115 kW) | 156 hp (115 kW) | 156 hp (115 kW) |
| Couple | 260 Nm | 260 Nm | 260 Nm |
| Weight | 1536 kg | 1520 kg | ? |
| Autonomy (WLTP) | 400 km | 400 km | ? |
| 0 to 100 km/h | 9 sec | 9 sec | ? |
| Price | 39 000 € | 35 900 € | ? |
The Tychy plant hopes to return to its former production levels, but everything will depend on the commercial success of these three new models. We don't yet know the volume targets for each of them. The Jeep
Jeep Avenger off to a rocky start which was only to be offered as a 100 % electric model in France, finally saw the arrival of a hybrid combustion version in July to bolster sales. In the first 5 months of 2023, Jeep announced that it had sold 7214 Avengers, including 87 % hybrid thermal versions.
The future of Fiat's Polish plant could depend on sales of the new SUVs, which will have to win over European consumers in a highly competitive market.
As a reminder, the number of cars produced between 1971 and November 2019 at the Tychy plant:
- Syrena: 344,099
- 126 : 3 318 674
- Fiat 127: 380
- Cinquecento: €1,164,525
- Uno: 188,190
- Punto: 57,026
- Bravo/Brava: $22,964
- Marea: 2846
- Ducato: 2893
- IVECO : 2732
- Seicento/600: 1,328,973
- Palio Weekend: 34,138
- Siena: 50,151
- Panda: 2,154,854
- 500 : 2 302 362
- Ford KA: 514,288
- Lancia Ypsilon: 500,000
"Debatable, to say the least!
I'd forgotten the magnificent Syrena. A name that could have been used again.
If the Jeep Avenger is going to compete with three models from the same group, it's going to be complicated. I'm less worried about the 600. But I'm not forgetting that the 500X is produced in Melfi, and that the follow-up will include Opel and DS models, but don't worry, we'll put Italian flags everywhere and that'll be enough...
What I find crazy is the Avenger's 87% of hybrids, for a model originally presented only as electric!
Quite a disappointment for Jeep, I think, when it comes to electrifying the range, and I don't think we're safe from the same thing happening at Alfa, supposedly full electric by 2026 ...
I can see a drip-feed of hybrids until 2030 to sustain sales.
At the same time, my parents-in-law are good examples. They were interested in the Avenger from the very first advertisements. They went to the showroom: not a model to try out, 39,000 euros yes, but as soon as you change the color or anything else, the price goes up really fast, and leasing costs way too much compared to the competition. Disappointed, they went elsewhere...
If you continue to write such hot articles when this moment ... you'll end up setting the house on fire because it's revolution right now on Italpassion.😂
And there's more to come before the end of the month.
💣😁!I can smell the powder already! 😂🧨
Unfortunately, it's nothing new that FCA's customer service is catastrophic.
No models to try, no after-sales service, no consideration for the customer, problems with vehicles as soon as they are delivered.
Things I've often heard...
As far as prices are concerned ... don't go looking at Mini, you can literally double the price of the car as an option!
And at €40,000 for a city SUV ... that's the price of a 159 V6 10 years ago!
A 159 which, for that price, was a real rip-off because it was worth no more than 10,000 less.
Delivery problems at Fiat are rare compared with many others, such as the VAG group or BMW with Mini, but for the rest I agree with you entirely.
And about the Panda :
Panda 2 > Tychy
Current Panda 3 (until 2026?) > Pomigliano d'Arco
Future Panda 4 in 2024 > Tychy or Kragujevac in Serbia?
Following the FCA-PSA merger, wasn't there a "grace period" for plants and jobs?
I'm not opposed to electric cars on principle, especially for city driving, having driven a few electric cars and been pleasantly surprised, notably by the Fiat 500e or the Abarth 500e.
However, there's an obvious practical problem. If you live in a block of flats and nothing has been decided about the installation of recharging points (we know it'll be years before it's decided), or if you make long journeys, I can't see myself making a Paris-Nice trip with numerous stops of at least 30 minutes, or avoiding taking small roads because of the lack of recharging points along the way.
As long as we can buy combustion engines, the choice is obvious. The all-electric option for Fiat, Abarth or Alfa Romeo is madness.
If the Jeep Avenger doesn't sell well electrically, even though it's an excellent car, it's a good thing to wonder.
Can Jeep produce city cars (around 4 meters)? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?
Just like the Baby Alfa or a Mito.
Proof that electric vehicles don't sell well is that Jeep is backtracking on the Wangler, which was not to be sold in Europe as a single-cylinder model, and is importing it anyway.
Announced today.
A 4-meter Alfa would make more sense (the original Giulietta being exactly that length). I know you're in favor of a strong move upmarket for the brand, but there's almost nothing to compete with Mini, especially nothing in rear-wheel drive, as BMW has made its 1-Series bigger and bigger, while at the same time upgrading it to front-wheel drive. For me, this would be a return to basics. Incidentally, the MiTo only had a Punto III platform, but it still gives me the eye when I come across it... and it's not going to get any better with the thing coming from Poland.
That the Giulietta (better) exists in the range like the Tonale (better) is fine, but as for the Mini, it's up to Abarth and Lancia to do something about it, Fredo.
Look at the size of the Giulia, it's one of the smallest in its class, yet it's perfect, Stelvio ditto.
It's only the Tonale that's inadequate in its current state, but it's a suitable product for Dodge and Abarth.
To have a Tonale or a Giulietta in the Alfa range, you need products as worthy as the Giulia and the Stelvio, and you need to create a benchmark product, which wasn't the case with the Tonale and the 4C.
It's crazy that FCA has released so many cool products over so many years, but has no brand name under which to sell them... it's as if we were dealing with long-time enthusiasts.
How Fiat failed to understand the need for a common platform between Alfa Lancia and Maserati, leaving the tipo platform to Fiat and Abarth.
On a personal level, it will remain an enigma!
The way to save the Fredo brand, as with Lancia or Maserati, is to apply the same method as Ferrari. A limited number of products and a price tag that's hard for the average person to afford. By the time they recover their full aura, exactly the kind of products Alfa or Maserati under Marchionne but with a more realistic sales number, than V6 or 4-cylinder hybrids, electrics and Hydrogen.
I think Maserati should limit itself to 25,000ex, Alfa and Lancia to 50,000ex (excluding special series like the 33 or MC20, which should also be deliberately limited).
As usual, I don't agree. I think Alfa Romeo can follow the old BMW example (a brand that drew a lot of its inspiration from Alfa in the 1960s), i.e. produce dream models, stay in F1 for the long term and keep a more accessible range, but without making concessions on styling and roadholding. The opportunity arose when BMW entrusted Great Wall with the development and production of the Mini platform (based on a kind of failed copy of the MiTo) and forgot about rear-wheel drive for its compact models. At around 4.20m, it's possible to offer a rear-wheel-drive follow-up to the 147, which would please a lot of people...
That a sedan like the Giulia is rather short for its class is a fact, but it will never replace a compact hatchback, which remains an important format in Europe (the Golf still sells very, very well on the continent, still in the top 10). Turning a small, dynamic Kamal rear-wheel drive into a compact crossover would make sense and have a certain class. Something around 33,000 euros at the start of the range, because with the Tonale 160 hp at 45,000 euros, they're likely to fall off the wagon...
No, 45,000€ is the minimum, but as you say, for a Kamal that should start with 300hp to 400hp 4WD (25% Avt/ 75% Are).
30 miles is more like DS, Peugeot, Abarth, Opel, even Lancia should have a Kamal clone but with 4WD (45/55) and a big 4-cylinder hybrid.
The Giulia is the category above the Golf, and we can't say that the sedan is dead because it's holding its own, whether in Europe, China or the USA.
What hurts the Giulia is the lack of SW.
Now it's time to find a coherent platform that would make the Delta, Giulietta, Thema, Giulia 4WD.
And that we can use for Dodge and Jeep.
Chrysler remains a problematic brand, because it's all a blur.
So a Chrysler, Lancia, DS Share wouldn't be a bad thing and a Dodge and Alfa Share too (but not stupid clones)!
Producing dream cars and staying in motorsport at a cost no longer possible with low-margin vehicles.
As far as BMW is concerned, you're shortening the story a little, Fredo, because on the 1 series, the compact went rear-wheel drive, because even the coupé remained rear-wheel drive and used the chassis of the M3, albeit less extensively, and if front-wheel drive arrived on the 2 series, it's simply because Mini couldn't be switched to rear-wheel drive, since it was they who launched the front-wheel drive craze in Europe with the transverse engine... hence BMX's choice to switch to the 1 series, since all the other Mini derivatives were virtually a failure.
I'm not saying that the sedan is dead, especially not outside Europe, but in Europe there's a very important segment to address around 4.35m, that's a fact. The Tonale is only 16 cm shorter than the Giulia, and that's not enough of a gap, not in a range that includes just three models. Incidentally, this excessive length explains the discrepancy with the concept, which had a more balanced profile. The whole network and the Italian workers expect higher sales volumes, and you want to sell by the drop, it wouldn't work. And at 39,000 euros for the 130 hp edizione speciale with front-wheel drive (thanks to the Brembo brakes, which are needed to stop such a missile), it's hard to conquer the market. Because that's the whole point: to win back customers from BMW, and as you can read on the website, the X1 was chosen. Not only because of its good behavior, but above all because of its lack of options, a simple way of selling at a higher price, especially when it's the customer who's asking for it.
The Giulia and Stelvio are just as appropriately sized as the 156/GT or Mazda's RX8 (coupé saloon), and all are in the 4.5m range, capable of accommodating 4 people royally.
Fiat has been doing this for decades, and we've seen the results.
If you make products like the Tonale, the Mito and others, you're not reaching high-end customers in the way they want.
It's up to Stellantis to make a Giulietta/Tonale set, no taller than 4 meters but still propulsive.
I only see the facts:
The 8C, selling like hotcakes.
The Giulia GTA and GTAm (while awaiting a GTAc perhaps), sold like hotcakes.
La 33, sold like hotcakes.
So yes, high-margin models are more profitable financially than these lower-end models (excluding Giulia, Stelvio) and the 4C and Tonale are just a branding error, because they're better under Abarth).
Eliminating the diesel ⛽️ on the Giulia and Stelvio, and leaving just the V6 and L4 in bioethanol would have made it possible to make a quantum leap, while limiting sales and above all trying to make them as irreproachable as possible .... in terms of reliability, as was the case for Lexus at the outset.
It's the only way to keep sales constant, and going backwards will only slaughter the brand even more, like the Baby SUV and Tonale.
Do you remember the result of the Cygnet at Aston Martin? They do.
Currently, most people are not ready to switch to EVs. Fiat was popular with cheap models but now they are selling an ugly EV for 36,000 euros and expect it to save the brand? If I have 36000 euros I wouldn't choose Fiat. 😐 They could even sell quite a few with a normal priced mild hybrid model.
It may not be a popular view, but I like the 500x from the front better than the new 600.
I would rather spend €35,000 in a Fiat than in a German car that will spend its time breaking down every day, or an English car that never starts, or an American car that burns for one thing or another!
I am Italian 🇮🇹 The Fca group is being manipulated by PSA, putting PSA engines in an Alfa Romeo is no longer the origins of the brand, and since they are with PSA it's a mess, fca come back to your origins and the real Italian disagner 🇮🇹👍🇧🇪 forza italia