Alexandre
If the first Lancia made in Stellantis will be produced in 2024, the new Ypsilon, the Italian brand's flagship will be presented in 2026, under the name Gamma. Dew information has been officially shared by the brand, providing further details.
This Lancia Gamma will be produced in Italy, at the Melfi plantwhich currently produces the Fiat 500X, Jeep Renegade and Jeep Compass. This is the first piece of good news, especially as these models are reaching the end of their life cycle.
Secondly, and not surprisingly, it will be a 100 % electric car. The interesting information is that it will be aa 4.7 m long fastback. It's hard not to think of the new 408.
It will not be based on the STLA Large platform. STLA Medium. Nevertheless, it should offer a range close to 700 km.
CEO Luca Napolitano tries to sell us the car: "Casa Lancia's flagship product will be a beautiful and elegant Italian car, beautiful on the outside and beautiful on the inside, where you'll really feel like you're in the living room of an Italian home".
So that's all we know so far about the Gamma. Just to pass the time between the Pu+Ra HPE concept and the future Lancia showrooms who can't wait to receive their Ypsilons in 2024.
Let's hope that Lancia's 3 models are successful, and that sales are on the up, otherwise the brand will be definitively doomed.
It smells of scorch, let's face it!
I'm waiting to see, the range is a model that could speak to me. The last straw would be to have the choice in 2026 between a beautiful giulia and a beautiful gamma... if it doesn't go freestyle in terms of design and pricing!
Given the concept, it won't be much to get up at night, and given that it will only be a PSA clone, it sounds even less appealing. A beautiful Giulia if it stays that way, but for the moment we don't know much about its replacement.
And given the weight of the electrics, they could be classed alongside tanks. When you see the weight of the Lotus saloon (over 2 tonnes), it's chilling.
At least you won't be afraid of hitting a kerb - it's the kerb that will bend on impact!
😂🤣 well said, we had to find that one!🤣😂
The Giulia will have much better characteristics, with an 800V system for very rapid charging (the Ioniq 5 at the same voltage can reach 80% in 18 minutes with a sufficiently discharged battery). As far as weight is concerned, Imparato announced a quest for lightness (relative, of course) for the Giulia at Automobile magazine last April...
See and touch to believe only half of it.
Lotus promised light vehicles and we see the result. In 18 minutes... filling up with fuel takes less time and you've already been behind the wheel of your vehicle 🚗 for a good 10 minutes, I still don't see the progress in that knowing that they offer enormous power to compensate for a weight that is downright insane.
Some overpowered electric cars (1000 hp) are even unsuitable for ordinary drivers, who will be unable to master them. Perhaps this race for power is to compensate for the fact that the BMW iX is well over two tons (2700 kgs), but between overweight and overpower, manufacturers are offering cars that aren't for everyone.
Stellantis is listed on the stock exchange, and its managers can't afford to bullshit the press and investors, as Musk seems to have learned recently. This electric Giulia may be horrible (although the very pure 1900 Super Sprint has been mentioned), but it will inaugurate the STLA Brain platform and offer at least an 850 hp version (hence Q4 system). That wasn't a wish, it was a statement.
What's the point of 850hp or even 3000hp?
Oh, because they're listed on the stock exchange, they can't talk nonsense? Ah, that's strange, because they announced much higher power ratings for the ⚡️ electric versions of Maserati, but that didn't stop them from releasing a power rating that had nothing to do with what they officially said, and that didn't bother the stock market or investors at all!
Two things: no, Stellantis can't afford to talk nonsense about future marketed models (and no electric Maserati is currently on the market), otherwise the group risks heavy penalties from the stock market authorities (and there is a listing in the USA). Secondly, an electric Scenic weighs 1840 kg empty, with an 87kWh battery. By offering 73kWh in base version, the future Giulia can do better and come close to the 1660 kgs of the current combustion-powered sedan. The 280 hp version is subject to a malus of over 10,000 euros in France...
Fredo, I suggest you reread this and see if there's any inconsistency between the 1200hp that was announced and the 740hp they want to offer now:
https://www.italpassion.fr/maserati/maserati-granturismo-folgore-toutes-les-infos/
And the Renault Scenic weighs in at 1842kg unladen for 220hp... the power-to-weight ratio isn't exactly favorable, and for the moment everything about the future Giulia remains speculation.
The fact is that the Maserati GT's three engines produce the full 1,200 hp, but only 740 on the ground. Personally, I don't mind, because this is a GT. But a more powerful version is possible by working on the chassis. I'm not sure what the Scenic's engine has to do with it, as it's a family model. I was just pointing out that unreasonable weight is not inevitable with electric architecture. An electric Opel Astra weighs 1,600 kgs unladen, and by 2025 semi-solid batteries will make it possible to increase capacity for the same weight. Reaching 73kWh seems realistic to me, at around 1800 kgs, without resorting to aluminum and carbon. If we give ourselves the means, it's entirely possible to do better. The real problem is the behavior of the electric block, and how to regain a specific Alfa Romeo character.
The 1200hp already announced would give 740hp at the wheels, which seems incoherent to me, but that's not the point, because there's a 460hp difference between what was announced and what was proposed, which just goes to show that for the stock market, announcements don't change anything, and the stock market watchdog can't do anything about it.
Seeing that there's no problem with an electric Scenic that puts out little power and has only a few batteries, the weight will suffer, just as it will when we get a gigantic mass of battery on the Alfa Giulia with its 1000hp and give a Lotus-type elephant. And as for the evolution of batteries, it's like the future Giulia, it's still a pipe dream.
The old Tesla S Plaid has 1,000 horsepower, a battery of the order of 100kWh and weighs something like 600 kilos less than the Lotus (when we hear about the formidable technological advance of the Chinese...). Five years later, Alfa will offer a sedan 20 cm shorter with a new-generation battery, so the extra weight can be kept under control. In fact, I think that the Quadrifoglio version will come out in 2027 with a solid battery, which is the industrialization date announced by all the major suppliers for this type of battery, promising double the density.
Stanislas
I agree with you entirely on this point, because we're in the middle of a delirium, but as soon as people protest, they're called conspiracy theorists!
Not to mention the number of electric vehicles that burn out instantly and end in tragedy. Just look at the latest video of the bus in the middle of Paris that burns up and people can't get out!😢
How can we let people drive around with time-delay incendiary bombs with impunity?
Stanislas
I agree with you entirely on this point, because we're in the middle of a delirium, but as soon as people protest, they're called conspiracy theorists!
Not to mention the number of electric vehicles that burn instantly and end in tragedy. Just look at the latest video of the bus in the middle of Paris that burns up and people can't get out!😢
How can we let people drive around with time-delay incendiary bombs with impunity 😡
The Tesla dealership in Chignin which ended up totally charred and people in the area thought bombs were being dropped 💣 in the area.
Fredo: Is it better to drive a 510-520-horsepower Giulia Quadrifoglio (or an even lighter 540-horsepower GTAm) with a fabulous V6 engine, or a future 850-horsepower electric Giulia that will probably weigh over two tons? Which is more enjoyable? Obviously the lighter car.
The 0 to 100 or 1000m standing start times are of little interest, because you don't drive a stopwatch by hand. The pleasure of a car is not about basic performance. Imparato can say that the future Giulia will do 0 to 100 in 2 seconds (or 2.5 seconds), but that only proves that he doesn't understand anything about the pleasure of a car.
Stanislas
I have nothing to add to your comment... everything is said!👍
Colin Chapman, Gordon Murray, Enzo Ferrari and the Maserati brothers used to say:
"A powerful car is excellent in a straight line. A light car is excellent everywhere!"
Food for thought.
If we're lucky, it's a completely different team working for Lancia. The concept is very nice, and we can hope for something more harmonious than the 408 (especially that rear bumper...). We'll have to wait and see.
From what I've been told, the Lancia will take up the front and rear lines of the concept... it remains to be seen what will happen in reality.
Lancia ammiraglia have always been beautiful cars, including the "Lancia-Chrysler" 300C, which had the disadvantage of being a simple badge change, but the design by Canadian Ralph Victor Gilles was remarkable.
So I'm still hopeful, especially as Maserati is discontinuing the Ghibli, precisely to make room for the future Lancia.
For a company that wants to make its vehicles profitable as quickly as possible, it's a mistake to stop producing the Ghibli, because an Alfa/Lancia/Maserati triplet could easily have been created, and all 3 could have made a profit more quickly, each with its own V6 BiTurbo (if FCA hadn't stopped Ferrari producing the first Maserati V6 and migrated it to Lancia). We've all been waiting for this V6 at Lancia, and it would also have worked wonders at Citroën, which often shared its patents with Lancia in the 60's to 80's (if only Peugeot would stop stubbornly sticking with DS, which looks more like a failure than anything else, but which Peugeot refuses to admit after having been warned since its creation). We'd really have 2 chic premium cars, but given that they're going to be all-electric... we're not expecting any miracles.
As long as Peugeot continues to believe that they can be more than just a generalist (and we've been seeing fewer and fewer lion-badged vehicles for over 10 years), the problem will remain the same.
That said, almost no one wanted a Lancia-badged Chrysler, and that's only logical, because not only did it tarnish Lancia's image, but the products were really not very good, and almost obsolete (like the Fulvia).
For them to get away with it, they'd have to leave Citroën and Lancia under the Maserati umbrella, which would be more in line with the DNA of the 3 brands, and stop using Peugeot's common platforms.
Lancia has changed its image often enough: sporty with the Lancia Delta Integrale and the Lancia Stratos, and at other times Lancia has been the symbol of Italian elegance.
Lancia's comeback is a welcome one, with the forthcoming Ypsilon, followed by the Gamma and Delta. What remains to be seen is what's under the hood, and whether it'll be more than just good looks.
It's FIAT that's ruined it, because before taking over Alfa Romeo's DNA was clear (and still is for enthusiasts of the brand), premium sports luxury, but by trying to make penny-pinching savings... they released products that had nothing to do with the brand in the 90s, and yet when you look at its sporting record, it has nothing to envy Alfa - in fact, it's almost the opposite, as it's still the most successful brand in Rallye. For sport, we can add the MonteCarlo, the Fulvia and the Hyena (which I dream of owning) and finally the Thema 8.32. It's also the only brand that was able to compete with Mercedes and Audi in the '80s before the arrival of Lexus (we all said that FIAT in the '90s should have been inspired by the Toyota method to make Lancia a brand in the premium pantheon).
The problem would be Citroën, because Peugeot has done everything to erase the prestige of the brand with the chevrons, and nobody forgives them for that.
It even makes you wonder if it wouldn't have been better off being bought by Renault at the time. It's a shadow of its former self, and no one has yet managed to dethrone the Xantia in the Elan 85km/h test carried out by the Swedes in 1998.
The Xantia was undoubtedly good, but for Citroen's prestige I think you have to go back a long way, to the DS and the SM.
And then, for so-called French prestige, PSA created DS, the brand that almost everyone (well, just a few people) dreams of.
If it hasn't gone beyond the SM, it's because Peugeot bought it at that very time (and even took the liberty of massacring the SMs that were waiting to be completely built, to avoid taking on the maintenance). Yes, no one wants a DS, at least I must have come across about twenty of them since the brand was created.
Stanislas, isn't the best solution to buy the Giulia through agents?
No, it doesn't make any difference, because a mandatary cannot avoid paying the malus.