Alexandre
The electric 500, which has been on the market for 3 years now, has achieved respectable sales, but mainly in two countries: France and Germany. What are the main reasons for this? How to convince other countries to switch Fiat where the hybrid model is still selling very well? That's the question we put to Guillaume Clerc, Fiat and Abarth Product Manager, on the occasion of our trip to Italy to learn more about the collaboration between Fiat and Disney
Last time I checked, the 500 electric is at the top in France and slowing down in other countries. In the first 9 months of 2023, that's almost 48,000 electric Fiat 500s. were sold in Europe, including 17,450 in France alone. In France, it even accounts for 72 % of registrations compared with the internal combustion model, while this score stagnates at 35 % throughout Europe.
Lately, articles have been talking about Germany, which for the first time places the electric 500 at the top of the electric sales charts in October 2023 with 1,760 registrations. Over 10 months, this represents 17,877 registrations. It's a respectable score that places this country just behind France. However, with 3504 registrations for the hybrid model in October 2023, the electric version represents "only" 32 % of registrations.
By the ladleful, France and Germany therefore account for over 70 % of Fiat 500 electric registrations. But how to explain this?
Guillaume Clerc:
"Fiat's projection of the future is an electric future. This car has convinced many customers in France and Germany, but less so in Italy, for example. That's a real challenge we have to take up. The electric model should account for less than 5 % of registrations in Italy.
The reasons for this difficulty are not linked to the product, but to the low premiums for the purchase of an electric car, an underdeveloped recharging network, higher electricity prices and therefore higher running costs. When you add it all up, it adds up to a number of constraints, which are a challenge for Fiat in Italy, but also throughout Southern and Eastern Europe.
It's a real difficulty for a manufacturer like Fiat to suffer on its flagship model, in its market. Discussions with the authorities are therefore essential.
An explanation that coincides perfectly with Carlos Tavares' latest statement to the Italian government that he is ready to increase production of electric cars in Italy, provided that increase financial incentives. He did ask the Italian government to hurry up and intervene immediately, and not in a few years' time, when it will be too late. And yes, the electric 500 won't be able to live forever thanks to two countries.
This proves that Italian customers have realized that electric cars are a bad idea. What's more, there's no infrastructure to convince them.
Too bad there isn't a hybrid version, which would be a real hit.
yes, I think a hybrid version like the Yaris would be a hit.
In Switzerland, there are structures in place for electric cars, but that's not why people are rushing out to buy them. In fact, the opposite is true, since the Confederation has decided to carry out in-depth surveys on the subject, and given the results, EVs are taxed in the same way as combustion engines. They're more inclined towards combustion engines and hybrids, but would like to see vehicles slimmed down seriously, as this is the crucial point on which pollution is measured.
Stellantis is anti-hybrid, so you might as well play the lottery or the EuroMillion, it's more profitable.
The 500 hybrid already exists (and has for several years). https://www.fiat.fr/fiat-500-hybrid/500
Yes, but we're talking about the new 500e, which only comes in electric version and lacks a hybrid version, not the old 70 hp Fiat 500, which is actually a micro-hybrid.
The car is dedigned for verdion with thermal engines. Just look under the car there is even the space in front crossmember for the passage of gas exhaust and a big void volume in the back for thevexhaust system.
Tavares dimply had cut the project.
It looks like margins are more important than customers long term satisfaction.
I own the latest-generation small 500 petrol car, and it's true that owning a hybrid before going all-electric would have been a good experience.
These are great little cars.
Except that, apparently, it's a waste of time. So we might as well keep the old Patricias.
I've had a fiat 500 E on lease for almost 2 years.
As a 2nd car.
I am totally delighted.
So much so, that in view of the high price of diesel (1.80€/l on average) we ended up using the electric car as a priority for the 17,000 km/year we had planned.
We are going to renew with Fiat a new Loa over 3 years but taking the Fiat 600E Red.
Because of the 4 doors and double the trunk space
The range has been increased to 407 km and for
61500 km/3 years .
By recharging it magoritaire at night rate
That works out at €477 / year with EDF
Whereas with my Huyndai diesel
7.5 l / 100 x 1.80€/l x 20500km/year that comes to
2775 €
2300€ in savings
This one pays a large part of the rent for my new fiat 600e.
Yearly: driving a new, maintenance-free fiat 600E costs me: 693€ / year
Very good, but we'll talk about it again when electricity rates really go up (they already have for his home), and car recharging prices aren't so economical. It saves money now, but what about in a few years' time?
To say that electricity prices will remain stable is as illusory as saying that a liter of petrol will stay at €1.50 without going up.
Stanislas
He's going to revise his calculations!
Revel:
There's a huge error in your calculation, because on the one hand you see 17,000km/year and on the other 20,500km? Isn't there a ball in the soup? To compare that and say that you're saving €2,300???? Because your calculation isn't coherent at all, given that you apparently drive 3500km less with the 500th!!!!!
Bjr Ced Bjr Stanislas
No, sorry - there are no errors in my figures and calculations. Please read my announcement carefully:
Currently
I've had a Loa on a Fiat 500E for almost 2 years now.
At a rate of 17,000 km/year, i.e. 34,000 km over 2 years
March 2024
I'm going to Loa on a Fiat 600E
At a rate of 20500km/year or 61500 km/3 years
Electricity rates: I'm basing myself on the latest increase for August 2023.
Or: off-peak: €0.1453/kwh at Moi
I haven't even mentioned the outdoor rates, many of which are occasional!
At an Electric consumption of 16kwh/100km
At €0.1453/kwh
For 20500km /year
That comes to €476/year👈
Compared to my Huyndai Tucson diesel
A 7.5 l/ 100
At €1.80/litre
For 20500km/year
That comes to: €2,767 / year
Result: Diesel 2767 € - 476 € electricity
That's an annual saving of €2291!
Knowing that I'll be leasing this Fiat 600E
249/month
It pays more than 9 monthly installments
Note that all my calculations are in the thought of a LOA!
I'm not currently in favor of buying an electric car.
Because rates are set to fall significantly between now and 2025
With the arrival of the new solid-state batteries
And the setting up of new Factories totally dedicated to electric vehicles!
In the end: I didn't run
I'm now retired, and I have plenty of time to do my calculations.
And my profession was: Road Haulier
So I was used to calculating costs!
This is the 1st time I've participated in a forum,
I won't do it again.
There's no point in preaching to the choir!
Sorry for my annoyance
But convincing is only possible for a long time.
And
My generation didn't know there would be an impact on the climate.
Now : We all know!
And it's up to everyone to do something for your future.
Compare a Hyundai diesel doing 20,500km with a 500 EV doing 17,000km. To show savings, you'd have to compare equal kilometers, equal weight (compare it to a 500 diesel, for example).
sto usando da circa un mese una 500e a noleggio, con Europecar, ne sono talmente entusiasta che ho deciso di acquistarne una, ho pannelli fotovoltaici, la ricarico prevalentemente gratis, ma anche fosse ricaricata di sera, con lo scambio sul posto del fotovoltaico, per caricare i 42 kwatt spenderei circa 4 euro che mi garantiscono una percorrenza in inverno di circa 200/230 chilometri, facendo un rapido calcolo, risparmio ogni mese di benzina, quello che pagherei di rata con il leasing di stellantis, in pratica mi costerà solo l'anticipo che è di 4160 euro, premetto che non sono un patito dell'elettrico, amo i motori termici, la mia auto principale è un benzina da 300 cavalli, però adoro la praticità, la silenziosità ed il risparmio delle piccole elettriche che probabilmente mi convinceranno ad acquistare un elettrica anche per la mia auto principale, 500e davvero Numero1, grazie Marchionne che ci guardi dal paradiso!
No problem:
I compare it with what I have now.
But let's take
My previous car was a brave
Toyota Yaris 4 HP petrol
Let's do the math again
Fuel consumption: 5.20 l/100 km
Petrol price: €1.82/l SP 95 near me today
For 20500 km/year
It works out at: €1,940 over 1 year
1940€ - 477€ = 1463€ savings / year
That's almost 6 lease payments on my future fiat 600E.
I have nothing to gain by showing you this
I'm not a car representative
Just an informative wake-up call from someone who knows what he's talking about, since it's been 2 years since I switched to electric power for our 2nd car.
We live 15km from a big city.
And no discomfort from the start
We're keeping the Hyundai Diesel
For the time being
For travelling and towing our trailer or van
I'm 63 - I hope my grandchildren will only know vehicles that don't make noise and don't pollute.
The advantage of the LOA is that there's no risk in trying.
Reminders:
In 61500 km
-no oil change - oil filter - diesel filter
- no tire change
- no Vidite at the technical inspection
- we always drive a new, fully updated car.
Go to YouTube, and like me you will see the calculations for Teslas, for example.
Good day to You
Revel:
1/ Now you take a 500e and a 500t (internal combustion) and you run them on ethanol (E85), for the same number of kilometers I don't think the difference is that great, the pollution will go down quite a bit.
2/- to do good for the planet, we close coal-fired factories 🏭 (Germany, China and others), we do away with private jets 🛩️, cruise ships 🚢, obsolete factories 🏭, the overproduction of intensive livestock farming, the (limousine) company cars of governments, representatives
We'll see that there are many areas of high pollution that we don't talk about, but that nobody wants to touch (the very people who use them). Above all, if we stop deforestation, prevent the use of concrete and restore flora to its rightful place, the problem will be limited enormously.
3/- You wrote that you were a truck driver, but I think I know what I'm talking about because I'm a driver in the passenger transport business (from local to international) and the problem isn't the combustion engine but the ever-increasing weight of vehicles, and there's also public transport as an alternative to reduce pollution.
4/- You write that we weren't aware of global warming before, but I'm sorry to contradict you, because the alarm bell 🛎️ was rung in the 60s (10 years before I was born) when the era of industrialization began to turn on a dime and we started to build as fast as we could with no regard for what nature provides and all the needs it brings us.
5/- I agree with Stanislas that the price of electricity is rising all the time, and that, as we've seen in California, too many electric vehicles are causing huge burnouts at the ⚡️ power plants, which for the most part are not powered by so-called green energy like coal-fired plants and the like, whereas with the waste we should have started recycling decades ago, we could be creating new synthetic fuels instead of burying everything and polluting the planet, What's more, nuclear power ☢️ has been abandoned, since we now know how to process and recycle waste at a rate of over 90%, thanks to the new French plant (which was shut down under pressure from the polluting Germans and the mafia-like EU).
5/- I certainly pollute less with an ethanol-powered Lotus Elise or Opel Speedster on a daily basis, because of its weight and simplicity, than with a 600E that's twice as heavy and packed with useless options, and whose electric power is in no way environmentally friendly.
6/- There's no point in getting carried away and saying that this is the last time you'll be on a forum, because just because someone has a different opinion from yours doesn't mean you should judge them, and it's a pleasure to chat with someone who may have a different opinion from us, and I'm delighted to meet you.
Oh, I forgot the main problem of pollution, which is the only problem we are too little aware of.... human overpopulation is the main scourge of the world.
Are you talking about Teslas? Why then after 3 years do they have so many irreparable problems and in fact virtually unrecoverable cars. Not to mention the batteries 🪫 which deteriorate very quickly because of fast 🔌 chargers, cold or high heat???? So yes, as Stanislas has said several times, the electric car is a wonderful idea in the city, but for the rest... it's quite the opposite.
Why not develop all types of public transport like in Switzerland, which would greatly help mobility for everyone.
Why are there so many fires or explosions with electric buses that many cities are stopping them and reverting to engines running on rapeseed or Tesla and others, motorcycles 🏍️ scooters 🛴 electric scooters and so on that self-combust or even explode or burn while being charged???
You can also find this on YouTube.
Sono da poco in pensione e ho ordinato una 500 elettrica nella versione la Prima, top di gamma, bellissima di colore bianco, per i km che faccio ora sinceramente nvlo che mi arrivi...