Alexandre
We were almost disappointed not to hear from the future supercar. Alfa Romeo which Jean-Philippe Imparato, the brand's General Manager, has kept up the suspense over the last few months.
We thought it would be on June 24 to mark the brand's anniversary, but not at all, the new Alfa Romeo supercar will be presented on August 30, 2023at the brand's automobile museum.
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What we know about this future Alfa Romeo sports car
There's very little information on this new Alfa Romeo sports car, because even internally in Italy, not everyone knows about this model. Here's what we do know:
- It will be presented at the Alfa Romeo Museum on August 30, 2023;
- It could be called 33, 8C or even 6C... ;
- This will be an advanced concept;
- It will be marketed as a very limited edition (like the 8C and 8C Spider);
- It will be " very exciting, very exclusive and very expensive " ;
- The platform will certainly be that of the MC20;
- It will be either 100 % thermal, or 100 % electric,...
- The design will be created by the Alejandro Mesonero-Romanos team, Alfa Romeo's new head of styling. It will certainly mark the new Alfa Romeo design, which will also be inaugurated with the B-SUV.
See you on August 30, 2023, folks! A new Alfa Romeo is always an event 🙂
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These are exciting times for our beloved brands! One model a year, including one this very evening!
Tonight? Apart from the Supercar at the end of August, the bsuv in September, the future Stelvio in 2025...
Sorry, I'm looking at FCA as a whole, tonight we just saw the presentation of the 600 at Lingotto 🙂
That's great news !!!!
Certainly a vehicle that I will never have in my hands, but a brand like Alfa Romeo has to offer this kind of model that makes people dream!
I can't wait for August 30!
What to see
It's true that it's a change from the last decade (or two), when we had dozens of pretty promises, but one model every 5 years at Alfa (and Maserati, and Fiat) and a lot of frustration.
It's a pleasure!
even if the new era means we'll have to deal with electrics in the very near future.
By the way, technical question:
what about keeping electric vehicles on the road?
Will we be able to keep them for 20/30/40 years, like thermals can be kept?
...with batteries having a lifespan and aging slowly, maybe we'll have to change them every 10/20 years if we still want to be able to drive with them!
Making electric collector cars may be a gamble I wouldn't take, but I'm not going to!
But I don't think there's too much of an answer to this question, as we still need feedback and time to observe all this.
With a little digging on the Internet, it's easy to find a lifespan that's twice as long as that of combustion-powered cars. Between 500,000 and 1,000,000 km.
It's true that creating garbage cans on PSA bases really makes you want to do it!
So much so that all Giulia and Stelvio customers are already thinking of switching brands again, as well as to Maserati once the Grecale has disappeared if the rest of the range goes totally electric.
Wooaooo but what progress to see the customers leaving to the competition.
You may call it "psa garbage", but I'd be a little more respectful than that since at FCA, apart from the giorgio platform not thought out for electrics developed in 2014, there were 0 new platforms, 0 new engines 0 means. I agree that for now, having had a giulia, I'm not seduced by the Tonale and won't be seduced by the BSUV. In the meantime I've gone to the competition yes, but I'm expecting a lot from the future giulia, even electric, on the STLA Large platform which is supposed to be an improved giorgio... (used for example by the new granturismo).
All that to say that I won't criticize PSA because they have the merit of having anticipated and invested where they should have, whereas in Italy they were navel-gazing, with a superb Giorgio platform to be sure, but we've seen what that's done to Alfa sales, to delays in Maserati products... and at Fiat? Nothing. Lancia? Dead. Abarth? Dead.
Getting back on topic, I can't wait to see this new supercar, which could/should have been the sporty Alfa Romeo promised by Sergio, long before the MC20.
Until the day the puretech. engine failure lawsuit comes out, as is the case with Renault.
The Grecale was already underway before Stellantis, to whom it owes nothing, just like the MC20 and Alfa's programmed downsizing, and the Tonale owes nothing to Stellantis either. Was it Stellantis who brought out the 4C?
What have they done at Lancia??? Abarth, apart from an overpriced 500, what else is there? Did Stellantis bring out the 124?
We'll see how many Fiat 500 thermics and 500Xs are sold, compared with the new models, which are not making any headway in terms of sales (thanks to South America).
Before talking about navel-gazing for the others, we'll see what comes out of this one, because if it's to end up with a puretechgate that's going to plummet the group.... Wooooaoooo but what progress!!!!
You have to be careful when talking about lawsuits etc. I don't want any libel problems, I've already had them because of comments. Please don't extrapolate, otherwise I'll be forced to moderate some of the comments.
This is not defamation, but a concrete case that is happening step by step. Renault is beginning to feel it with all the plaintiffs who have joined forces in court.
The next one on the list is already known, because by taking customers for pigeons, it should come as no surprise that these pigeons decide to sound the alarm in court, and the number is too great for this not to happen, just like the new case for the VAG Group, which once again thought it was taking people for fools with its new software, and now finds itself before the courts once again.
When a problem is this serious, you either take charge of it or you expect the backlash at some point, and it's a good thing they weren't sold in the USA (though we'll see if the Avenger ever gets there).
I still ask you to take it easy because I'm responsible for the content on the site and I've already had problems 😉
This is it!
It had to happen!
https://www.caradisiac.com/l-etau-se-resserre-sur-le-moteur-puretech-de-peugeot-citroen-ds-et-opel-203303.htm
The MC20 had been announced years ago.
An Alfa Supercar was planned before the MC20. At Maserati, it was the alfieri that was planned.
The Alfieri is a 2015 concept and the 6C in 2016 on the same base. while the MC20 was announced and in preparation from 2018 at Dallara on the chassis of a 4C and this is the date when the Alfa 8C with rear mid-engine was announced.
Until the 2018 maserati product plan, there was talk of the alfieri. It wasn't until 2019 that harald waster declared that a new sports car would be unveiled in September 2020, and that it wouldn't be the alfieri... it would be the mc20 after all. We know this from the code names m165 for Alfieri, m240 for the mc20. The new Alfa Romeo Supercar was in the 2014 product plan, in 2018 too and gone in 2020.
In 2014 and 2016, Alfa Romeo announced a GT based on the Alfieri, not the SuperCar.
https://www.blog-moteur.com/14259/alfa-romeo-6c-en-preparation.html
It was announced as a competitor to the F-type, just like the Alfieri, and was rejected at the time because it not only followed in Maserati's footsteps, but also had an excessively luxurious philosophy, typical of... Lancia.
The only thing that came late on the MC20 was the change of engine, which was originally intended to be a V8 and was replaced by a V6 in the 4C used for its implementation and tuning.
Last time I checked, PSA's wonders were a sinkhole in China 🇨🇳, and it was the state and Dongfeng Motor Corporation that saved PSA from bankruptcy!!!!
Where are the "so-called" sublime results of Opel bought at a golden price from GM???? (Who must be having a good laugh).
If we're going to charge malus fees that cost the price of the car, we've got no choice but to go electric or stop making cars. It's as simple as that, Fiat doesn't have the power to stop it, and even Ferrari, which got a delay, only got a delay, and will bring out an electric in 2025. A year after Alfa after all. As a replacement for the Firefly 1.3L, I don't see much of a loss. On the contrary, the Emotors block can produce 200 hp and over 300 Nm like the Giulia, which is what we could have on Alfa's little crossover. With electrification, it's also possible to easily install a Q4 system for even more power. The only real limit to this technology in 2023 is that you'll have to fill up more often, but as for the rest, we can quietly announce a 1,000-hp Giulia QV without kidding... As for the durability of these models over 40 years, I smile and refer you to the Smell Like Gasoline channel, where you can see a masochist trying to restore an Alfa 33, which he certainly enjoys, but he's having a lot of trouble...
And we're all smiles when we see what will happen over time with electric garbage cans that live even shorter lives. It's the customers who are asking us not to go all-electric ⚡️.
Yes, we can see that the "so-called" agreement for 2035 is already smelling a rat.
Customers don't give a damn about having cars with 1000, 2000 or 3000hp in electric mode, because there's no pleasure in it, especially as there's no place to exploit it on a daily basis.
Ah, if some people are trying to make us believe that they need this to go to work or to do their shopping... it's clear that you'd have to be a masochist to see any point in it.
But at least limited editions of less than a thousand units will be able to continue living off thermics.
Even what a magnificent engine at PSA, what a marvel to see an engine slammed like crystal even with a timing chain.
It already smells of sulfur when it comes to reliability, but with 200hp I can't even imagine how long it will last. 5,000km, 10,000km?
We're not at Koeninseeg, which produces a 600hp 2.0l 3cyl.
Trying to rebuild a 40-year-old Peugeot is downright mission impossible.
Do we have the off-road space to exploit the real potential of a GTAm, i.e. the weight of a 600 with 540 hp on the rear wheels? The 200 hp Emotors engine has nothing to do with the Puretech; it's an electric block, not an internal combustion one. What's certain is that the MiTo has never exceeded 170 bhp and done better than 7.5 seconds to reach 100 km/h. With next year's model, we could easily do better, and why not with rear-wheel drive, without too much effort. As for durability, we've seen Tesla cars reach the million-kilometer mark - and Tesla really isn't a benchmark when it comes to construction... Over 10 years, the battery doesn't even lose 10% of its capacity, and if you really have to change it, it certainly costs, but having cylinders remanufactured, engines cleaned, exhausts rebuilt, hoses changed (and above all found again) also costs. Some time ago, I was very sceptical about electric cars, because of the weight and behaviour of a combustion engine, which is difficult to imitate. But on the one hand, weight is being reduced with semi-solid electrode batteries, giving models enough range for a limited weight (and they'll be industrialized by 2025), and on the other hand, we're seeing more and more initiatives - the latest being Toyota - working with manual gearboxes on sporty electric models. Our cars are already full of electronics, and we've long since moved away from the Fiat Mefistofele. The consistency and feedback level of a steering system are the fruit of electronics, so we can reproduce everything, including the mapping. Everything, even a handbrake to reduce understeer, as Opel has done on its rally e-Corsa. Everything except noise. Each brand will therefore retain its own specific character, if it wishes to do so, and above all, if it thinks about it. The Chinese, like Tesla, don't have all this heritage, but it's easily possible for Lancia to reproduce exactly the behavior of a Delta Integrale, and offer it to the general public, whereas today it's impossible. Why not?
Already, a GTAm is designed for the track and doesn't weigh 2 tons.
I'd like to see Tesla cars that pass the million-kilometre mark without changing their batteries first, because for the moment, the ones I've seen that already have 100,000 km are worn out, so I don't believe in 1 million. The 3-cylinder engine is a puretech found on the Avenger and soon on the 600.
It's not 10% in 10 years, as the British, Canadians, Austrians and Germans are demonstrating, but 50% in rapid recharging, as this heats up the batteries, which have a lifespan of no more than 5 years before they fail completely.
Taking 15 to 20 minutes not to recharge a battery with more than 60%, that's really a revolution!!!!! When it only takes 5 minutes to refuel a combustion engine.
Better 170bhp in a 1-tonne city car than 500bhp in an electric city car that will make twice as much and, on top of that, enjoys self-combustion because the batteries get too hot.
But what a joy the electric steering is, so extra that you don't know where your steering gear is positioned, and you can see the number of fender-benders that result from this marvel in coaches.
Why deprive yourself?
Firstly, for safety reasons, and secondly, because it's not environmentally friendly at all, and this has been proven... that's why.
We'll have to wait and see about the durability of the batteries... As for the 200 hp engine, we're having trouble understanding each other. At no point did the engineers try to get 200 hp out of a Puretech 1.2, which is obviously the Emotors electric block developed by Leroy-Somer and PSA. As far as recharging is concerned, you have to count the time it takes to get to the station, because if you use this 600e, which is a city car, well, you go straight home and plug it into a reinforced socket and a mobile or home terminal, and you'll be back in a minute. A few hours later, on your next outing, you unplug and put the cable away in a minute. Once a week. Frankly, compared with a 1.0L internal combustion version of the 500X, I can hardly see any loss. As for weight, a 130 hp 1.5L Fiat 500X hybrid weighs 1,495 kgs, while a 156 hp 600e weighs 1,520 kgs (and not two tons). The weight is almost identical for the same carrying capacity. The 600e has an extra 20 Nm of torque. The basic 500X costs 32,000 euros, the 600e La Prima at the very top of the range costs 38,900 euros at the moment... We'll see if it's a success or not, but I wouldn't be surprised, especially as cheaper versions are coming out (the (RED) is already 35,000 euros). When I saw the Tipo Sport project come out with its beautiful body kit, I said to myself, this is it, Fiat is finally offering us something equivalent to the Punto GT, and then I saw the engine: 95 hp. The comments were rather humiliating, there was no question of being glued to the seat in these conditions... For the little Alfa, all we need to do is prepare it a little with a few specific parts, an aluminium front hood, carbon elements and we'll be down to around 1,400 kilos, which will be enough to have the same acceleration capacities as the Giulia 2.0L. Obviously, this won't do everything, but the MiTo was far from being a monster of efficiency, and I think it will be easy to do better.
The 600th Prima costs €40,900.
Instead of investing money in a new Mito or Giulietta, he'd be better off reinvesting in Lancia for this kind of model.
Fredo on the Avenger thermal 1.2 100hp arriving in France, it's indeed a puretech on it, as on other brands with more power sometimes (not understandable) and it will be the same for the 600.
But when it comes to combustion engines, FCA has a memorable head start over PSA, and that's where the problem lies, because France has been haas been for ages when it comes to engines, and even Renault has helped itself to Nissan.
The Prima's price was very recently reduced to 38,900 euros, and with the bonus we have parity between electric and internal combustion with the 500X - even if the 600e doesn't yet offer a sunroof on a Dolcevita version. I don't care about the Puretech, it's a very temporary solution, the only future for this 600 is electric... Abarth will probably offer its electric version in 200 hp, i.e. achieve what was impossible with the 500X for reasons of compliance with CAFE regulations... If they feel like it tomorrow and see a market, they'll take the platform and come out with a 124e. Likewise, with the 500e's platform, it's possible to go to Pininfarina and develop a small coupé like the Cisitalia 202, absolutely anything is possible again. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Touring Superleggera were working on it...
As the saying goes:
I'm like Saint Thomas, I believe what I see and touch only to believe half of it.
You'll have to show me where the Prima 600e has been reduced to 38,900€, because everywhere it's 40,900€.
Whether you like it or not, they're all offering the cheaper internal combustion engine, and it's the puretech that's in it.
The day we see a 124 and other Abarth coupes again, I'll have become Pope and won the biggest Euromillion jackpot ever.
Saint Thomas could hardly believe anything less dubious... Just go to fiat.fr, click on "configure and buy" under the 600 slide, select the La Prima finish and read the online price, which is 38,900 euros.
"Barely unveiled, the 600th is now available to order. The La Prima version benefits from an introductory offer with a €2,000 discount.
Launching offer which means that it is not going to stay which means that the price is 40.900€!!!!
This is enormous for a city or compact car, whatever the make or country.
Doubtful or not, it's heresy to think that Fiat or Abarth will be producing coupes and convertibles from here.
So yes, I agree with Saint Thomas.
I think you're forgetting the 5,000 to 7,000 euro bonus, which puts the 600e at the same price as the 500X, if not more expensive. With an equally low cost of ownership, it's the range and the still non-existent options that will make buyers choose, not the price. Once again, the 500x starts at a list price of 32,000 euros, without wheel options (the Prima has 18-inch wheels). It's also obvious that Fiat is going to offer a less expensive range than this fully-equipped version. The fact is, in 2023, a compact car is expensive, including the Tipo.
Let's be honest, the deduction for electrics is not available in all countries.
It's strange, but the Avenger thermal is less expensive than the electric, and it will be the same for other makes and models.