Alexandre
This question is often asked: why Stellantis does not use a Fiat engine, more specifically the Firefly, also known as the GSE in 1.0L or 1.3L on new Italian models. like the Fiat 600, Lancia Ypsilon or Alfa Romeo Milano? The answer is partly technical: these new models are based on a CMP platform from PSA, so it would be simpler to integrate thermal and electric engines that have been (more or less) tried and tested, rather than adapting an engine from Fiat.
And yet, we had missed this information. For over a year now, in Brazil, the new Peugeot 208 is not powered by the 1.2L Puretech engine, but by the original Fiat 1.0L Firefly engine! The reasons are not performance, which is very similar, but rather that in Brazil 1.0 engines now account for almost 60 % of the car market in this segment, and because they are more suited to Ethanol than the Puretech engine.
| 1.0L firefly atmo | 1.0L firefly turbo | 1.2L Puretech 75 | 1.2L Puretech 130 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Power | 75 hp | 130 hp | 75 hp | 131 ea |
| Couple | 105 Nm | 200 Nm | 118 Nm | 230 Nm |
| 0 to 100 km/h | 14,5 | 9 sec | 13.2 sec | 8.7 sec |
| vmax | 164 km/h | 206 km/h | 164 km/h | 208 km/h |
Marketed from R$73,990, i.e. At around €13,807, the Peugeot 208 is available with naturally-aspirated 75 hp or turbocharged 130 hp. It seems to have been a success, as in the press it won the Best National Car category for up to 199,999 BRL. In terms of sales, 29,921 units for 2022, and over 20,000 units from January to September 2023.
All this to say that offering GSE/Firefly engines on a CMP platform would have been technically possible in Europe and that it's more a political decision than a technical one.
It's a pity you missed it (if you really did), because I mentioned it in one of the many discussions in the comments 😉 officially, there's the question of ethanol, but even more important is the reliability of this Fiat GSE engine, which is much more robust than the Puretech engine and able to withstand bad Brazilian roads. Peugeot's choice for its Brazilian 208 says a lot about their confidence in their engines... My advice to you, if you're looking for a reliable and not too expensive compact car from Stellantis, is to go for the Fiat Tipo 1.0. It won't look as futuristic as the Peugeot and won't have its "road feel", but you won't have any major problems with it, or unpleasant vibrations...
In fact, I've just looked on Italian and French websites (if I look hard enough), the Tipo is no longer sold in France online and only in hybrid version in Italy and it's out of price... Big mistake in my opinion, fiat.fr claiming that a 600 is a "wagon". Normally, the Tipo is supposed to last until 2026, so it remains to be seen whether Fiat can provide any details on this subject...
Hello everyone!
The puretech engine is a "technical disaster"!
I had it for 4 years in a 2017 Peugeot 3008 and got my "timing belt" at 73,000 kms! ... I happily got rid of it quickly!
Fiat is a very good engine manufacturer! In the past, I've had a multitude of models from the group, from the croma 2.0 turbo i.e, lancia Thema 2.5 TDS to the fiat 2.0 16v turbo coupé that I still own (226000 kms...) And I've never encountered any serious problems with my vehicles! I also had an Opel Insignia sport tourer with a 2.0 multijet in it and... R.A.S!.. unlike my Peugeot 3008...
A bon entendeur... salut !😊
What a clever thing to say! Thank you
Unless you have the means to buy, and on a good promotion, plan two belts and 4 discs, so pay by citroen for a C5 atmosphere at 27000 euro, before the release of the you, or that only the micro hybrid is on sale, and of course a less sporty driving.
The Firefly engine in a Peugeot, and not the PureTech, we've seen it all!
Let's hope that Fiat, Lancia and the future Alfa Romeo Milano do the same, and drop the PureTech.
Nobody wants PureTech.
And if it was "only" the problem of the wet timing belt... But there's also the risk of broken spark plugs (engine failure!), top engine scaling (engine failure... Sometimes!)...
And engine oil consumption can range from moderate to catastrophic.... Catastrophic... for my part, over 73,000 kms, I had to top up with about 5l of oil... But I had the opportunity to read testimonials where it could go up to 1l per 1000kms!...(that's what I read, I don't know if it's true.) Hence the calamity of the top engine!...no, frankly, having been through it, I feel sorry for people who, like me, have been taken for a ride, and who still own a vehicle equipped with this engine... Which, what's more, is becoming almost unmarketable second-hand!
But it is sure that given the long-term confidence on the electrics, the leasing becomes obligatory, as a TV we invented the car to be thrown, very ecological, and I ask a question, the first car of my grandson has 2000 euro, we make how
It reminds me of the 205 gtx sold in Spain until 1998 with the simca 1.6 Lt engine, because it supported different qualities of petrol, less efficient but more robust .......finally, it's a shame not to have the FPT blocks instead of the puretoc in Europe, especially since with the lawsuit that awaits stellantis because of this engine, they'd do better to forget about this block with the new fiat engines, just as Renault stopped their 1.2 tce for a new, more reliable 1.3.
Even a Trabant engine would be better than the Pure Tech in terms of reliability. Who is responsible for validating the technical choice of a timing belt immersed in engine oil?
I totally agree it's not a purtech engine but purdelire
The problem isn't so much the engineer who came up with the idea as the multiple committees who validated this technical solution because it was probably cheaper than a conventional one. I hope it will cost them a lot of money and that they will finally abandon this block of m*rde which is becoming more and more of a repellent...
We sometimes get good, informative and honest articles.
Congratulations to the author.
The reason for choosing a fiat engine for the Brazilian 208 is due to 2 factors:
Engines with a displacement of 1 liter (and less) are tax-advantaged (equivalent to lower VAT). It's therefore important to offer a 1L engine in the range, especially if it's turbocharged: it combines performance, good fuel economy and a competitive selling price.
Brazilian engines must accept fuel with about 20% of alcohol (100% "petroleum" fuel is not sold). Alcohol is corrosive, so the engine must be adapted.
Peugeot doesn't have a 1L engine adapted to alcohol, nor does it have a 1L turbo engine... so it's much more appropriate to use this Fiat engine, which is already produced in Brazil.
This puretech is a disaster. What happened to indestructible engines such as xu or cleons...? I was lucky enough to be able to resell a c3 before having problems, I feel sorry for the owners concerned.
Fiat has always made good, reliable and robust petrol engines. I have the 127 1050cc with (749 473 km and all and original) who says better!!!!!!!
I sell you my 208de 2017 which broke down at less than 60000km plus a drop of oil, oil pump and much more exchanged fortunately for free and 6 months later not a drop of oil !!!! although I drive little (about 10000km/year)
Group Citroën Peugeot buy no petrol engine bad quality performance tt day problem this group diesel engine ok no petrol engine
They've finally understood that puretech is unreliable...they'd do better to do the same in Europe rather than continuing to put puretech in all their cars...
This is where we should have started a long time ago, but it's well and truly too late.
On a C4 Picasso I've just had a timing belt break at 115,000 kms.
with a 1.2 PureTech engine I'm part of a collective of several thousand motorists taking Stellantis to court. This engine consumes a staggering amount of oil, and the belt that disintegrates produces debris that clogs the oil pump strainer and the vacuum pump, preventing effective braking and causing real safety problems. The result is engine overheating, often leading to engine failure.
Timing belts with engine oil baths are a veritable heresy!
If you're experiencing this kind of problem, join the class-action lawsuit against Elliantis on the myleo website.
All the best.
Jean Montenot
It's simply a financial question.
It's more profitable to produce 20,000 more Fireflies on a production line than to produce 20,000 Puretechs on a production line by themselves (or to import them from Europe).
In Europe, the opposite is true: Puretech production was higher than Firefly.
I've just ordered a 2008 130 hp automatic and I'm starting to get really scared.
Alain.M: if you still have the chance, I'd advise you to cancel the order... of course, I'm giving you my personal opinion, but having been through this (the 3008 was nevertheless a nice car to drive, my wife particularly liked it for that...) I can tell you that I was happy to be able to get rid of it! ... you also have to think about resale, and vehicles fitted with this block, once again, become unsaleable!... even professionals are reluctant to take these vehicles back!
Then, if you keep it, find out if your model will be equipped with a timing chain and not the belt (new models are normally chain-driven...) I don't know if it will be more reliable, it will take some time, but in any case, this block remains problematic if only for the oil consumption... Good luck to you!
It's incredible that Peugeot and Renault, for example, don't want to make reliable engines any more, even though they've proved in the past that they're more than capable of doing so, especially with the 21,25,space engines and PSA's fabulous 2lhdi 110. I myself have a 406 hdi with 355,000 km and it's a clockwork. I'll keep it as long as it passes the inspection because all these latest engines are a disaster!
Ah yes, they all make wonderful engines Renault, Peugeot wv Ford all these 3-cylinder engines have all had fairly substantial problems. Renault is on trial for 400,000 engines sold, knowing that these tce engines have serious problems, and the same goes for the purtech. And the others are the same, so they're going back to the good old 4-cylinder. And all this to save money for the carmakers, not for the consumers. To this day, I haven't read anything like this about fiat engines.
I believe that Fiat engines have been more reliable than Peugeot engines for at least 20 years. Fiat Fire petrol engines have been excellent, as have Fiat diesel multi-jet engines. I've heard that the new Firefly is also very solid. I drove these petrol and then diesel engines for 25 years in Lancia, Fiat and Alfa, and never had any problems. I now have a 100hp 208 blueHDI, and I have no engine problems. The gasoline Puretech performs well, but the timing belt is worthless. On the HDI, it's fortunately a timing chain. However, it has been reinforced since 2022 (it's a millimeter thicker).