Alexandre
While the Maserati announced lower sales in Q3 2023, lhe mathematical impact on sales is as follows. So much so that, if the 4th quarter is also down on n-1, the trident brand may not see any sales growth in 2023.
Maserati states 500 million euros in revenues by Q3 2023 600 million in the same quarter of the previous year. This gives the table below.
| Year | Q1 | Q2 | Q3 | Q4 | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2023 Sales (€ million) | 700 | 600 | 500 | ||
| 2022 Sales (€ millions) | 400 | 540 | 600 | 780 | 2320 |
| 2021 Sales (€ millions) | 2020 |
Whether sales volume is stagnating or falling is not really a problem for a luxury brand, since Maserati does much more in this respect than Ferrari or Lamborghni, on the other hand, stagnating or declining sales are more problematic. because the brand with the trident is far from being the best pupil. And frankly, we can't see how the brand could do any better without new products, and with Folgore products whose potential we know nothing about, which won't be delivered until the summer of 2024.
2022 figures for comparable brands
| Sales 2022 | CA 2022 | 2022 profits | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Maserati | 25 900 | 2.32 billion | 201 million |
| Ferrari | 13 221 | 5.09 billion | 939 million |
| Lamborghini | 9 233 | 2.375 billion | 614 million |
| Bentley | 15 174 | 3.38 billion | 708 million |
| Porsche | 309 884 | 37.6 billion | 6.8 billion |
| Aston Martin | 6 412 | 1.57 billion €. | 215 million |
| McLaren | NC | NC | NC |
| Bugatti | 80 | 331 million | -33 million |
| Rolls-Royce | 6 021 | NC | NC |
I'm sorry, Alexandre, but you're wrong about Porsche because you're announcing 8.72 billion when we're far from it:
"In 2022, Porsche achieved sales of 37.6 billion euros, up 13.6 % on 2021, for profits of 6.8 billion euros, up 27.4 %."
In short, there are 2 billion too many on the bottom line.
I've just modified it!
Don't worry, mistakes are human, we all make them... me first and not just a little to be objective about ourselves.🤣👎
No more Ghibli, no more Alfieri, no new Quattroporte or Levante (which haven't evolved in ages), so don't expect to see an increase in sales.
When you see Lexus evolving its products every year... you have to wonder what the executives who were supposed to break the mold at its creation are doing! They are, but unfortunately in the literal sense of the word. It's all very well for them to criticize FCA, but I can see that, apart from the Ferrari era, Maserati has evolved very little.
The Quattroporte 5 sold over 25,000 units in 10 years. I'd like to know how many models the 6 has sold in 10 years.
In short, it's high time Maserati and Lancia were merged together and Alfa came under the Ferrari umbrella, or else they'll all go to pot.
But no, we're going to produce Bsuvs and Vans because they're so vital to the brand!
Aston Martin would do well to join forces with Jaguar, since they too are on the hot seat and already smell of trouble.
We would:
Aston VS Maserati (Sport Luxury)
Jaguar VS Mercedes VS Lancia VS Lexus (Premium)
BMW VS Porsche VS Alfa VS Mazda (Sport)
McLaren VS Ferrari VS Lamborghini (Race)
Jeep VS Range (4X4 Luxury)
Royce, Bentley, Century and Aurus are in a class of their own, although Bentley's prestige has taken a huge hit.
Bugatti is being steamrollered by Koenigseegg, and I don't think Rimac will change much because Christian von Koenigsegg has set the bar very, very high, and Bugatti is a disaster when it comes to reliability.
Question:
What does Tavares do?
Answer:
He's injecting the dough into his Chinese business and PSA and the rest... he doesn't give a damn about it!!!!
Question:
What does Elkann do?
He's letting it happen while lining his pockets!!!!
The moral?
Apart from Ferrari, there will be nothing Italian left in the automotive world!
Hello everyone. For the good referencing of the site I had to clean the comments which had too many links towards other sites.
For the future of italpassion:
- thank you for commenting on the subject. If we're talking about Maserati, please don't go off on another tangent.
- avoid making too many links to other sites
Otherwise italpassion loses its ranking and my efforts with it.
I will delete comments that are no longer relevant to the topic or just links to other sites.
Thank you!
Alexandre
I agree with you in part, but you can look at the problem in reverse too. Letting us do that is Italpassion's STRENGTH, and a huge obstacle on many other sites (where you don't even want to talk because the comments are at kindergarten or even psychiatric hospital level). This ease of argumentation and total freedom of exchange (videos, articles and references taken from elsewhere) allows us to have enriching content that will bring in other members who come to argue by leaving their points of view and what they can see in general.
It gives your blog and your work the desire to share it with other people we meet.
A site like this has been set up in Switzerland, and it's breaking records year after year for the number of new members: sport auto Suisse.
It's also part of the charm of italpassion, which will grow (and rightly so) day by day, and the desire not to miss any article you share with us, so that we can learn from it and debate about the past, present and future of the Italian automobile and, in part, the automobile in general, even if sometimes we don't agree at all with some people like me and Fredo, who sometimes seems like a diplomatic conflict of interest, but whose different point of view I also love, and which makes me want to see the constructive arguments he brings to it.
But it's true that it wasn't intelligent of me, for example, to play along with the stupid and childish game of the other guy who said that Maserati, Alfa and Lancia have been doing nothing but crap since the Fiat takeover (I admit I didn't raise the level at all by getting fired up over nothing, and that it irritated me to read so much c......e in a single comment).
It also brings us Stanislas, Dan, Dav, Guybet and many others who want to develop the basic subject you share with us every time.
On those think about it, wishing you a great weekend.
Sincerely
I have no problem with any of this, just a reminder not to stray too far from the topic of the article when commenting. I look forward to reading your debates 😉
Thanks 🙏 to you.👍
Maserati sales are not so bad outside France, with the soon-to-be €60,000 super malus deterring buyers.
Making volume isn't the only thing that counts, and Ferrari is proof of that.
No one can say how Folgore electric versions will sell?
Electric sports cars aren't appealing, whatever the brand.
Ferrari deliberately limits sales (the only brand in the world to do so). Maserati, Alfa and Lancia should do the same, with products that are the benchmark in their field, and above all raise prices, while they rebuild their image. Rebuild showrooms worthy of their pedigree and after-sales service and customer care worthy of Ferrari. This would keep their products at a high level and, above all, get everyone back into motorsports, or even Abarth into light racing.
For the masses, there's already Fiat, Opel, Peugeot, Citroën and their new chinoiserie, so I think that's more than enough.
That's 5 brands to make volume for Mr and Mrs Everyone.
Maserati's niche is sporty luxury. The MC20 meets this criterion, and is creating demand with other recent models besides the Grecale, whose sales figures I don't know, nor those of the Levante or the Ghibli.
If Alfa Romeo is to have very sporty models like the Quadrifoglio and GTA, or special series like the 33 Stradale, I think it also needs less powerful, more affordable models. I don't think that Giulias with less powerful engines, or Giuliettas before them, stand out at Alfa. In any case, Alfa hasn't been making volumes for a long time now.
Stanislas:
Toyota's Lexus and Hyundai's Genesis or Ferrari set the standard. This means bringing out products that are untouchable (performance, reliability and after-sales service at the very top), deliberately limiting their number year after year, and evolving them every year (a Japanese technique established in the 1970s). With each renewal of the range, you gradually increase the number, while keeping the number limited in order to maintain the appeal of the products (and continuing to produce parts for used models even after the famous 25-year rule (which is not the case at present, brands like Maserati, Alfa, Lancia, Lamborghini, Audi and others have never been able to do... in short, a disgrace at every level).
You're putting everyone in motorsport where they've made their mark (Lancia in rallying, Alfa in WTCC, Maserati in endurance racing instead of Peugeot, which has nothing to do except shame us and throw crazy dough out the window).
This allows you to put a Ghibli, Grecale, Quattroporte, Levante, Alfieri and MC20 for Maserati (always with a hybrid V6, because having driven the Grecale 9 times, it's a bomb, but it lacks a Nettuno with Ferrari-type hybridization), sharing the modified Giorgio you see under Jeep. You take over the whole range, modify the bodywork, and put in a less powerful V6 BiTurbo hybrid (the one Ferrari sold to Maserati a short while ago, which partly fills the prancing horse's coffers) and give it a Lancia badge. You do the same with Alfa and its own V6, still a hybrid. You switch all these engines to different fuels for everyone (petrol for the ultra-rich, ethanol for the less fortunate and diesel for heavy-duty drivers). I can assure you it'll CART OUT FULL POTS. But you give Maserati and Lancia the right to have 2 different sizes on EACH of their products (yum yum for the Chinese).
Then we'll deal with the part that interests you most (even if it's the least profitable): we'll take the current Giorgio (in short, not lengthened) and fit it with a 3-cylinder 2.0 Biturbo hybrid (Koeninseegg gets 600hp out of his, and for a three-cylinder it's monstrous), which you install in the new Delta and Giulietta and their SUVs built on the same platform, and above all one that doesn't go downmarket (no more Ypsilon, which was basically an Autobianchi, and you leave this kind of mass-market product to Abarth, which has always been its specialty).
With such a limited product plan, customers are going to be affluent (because not everyone's car) and order books are going to be full for several years because every year the products will evolve.
This gives (we'll use fictitious names since the products don't exist)
MASERATI/LANCIA/ALFA:
Levante/Phedra/Gardena
Quattroporte/Thesis/Giuliana
Grecale/Zeta/Stelvio
Ghibli/Thema/Giulia
Granturismo/MonteCarlo/Brera and their convertible
Alfieri/Fulvia/Montreal and their convertible
MC20/Gamma/6C and their roadster
Then you add:
Musa/Tonale
Delta/Giulietta
Beta/4C if you want to add a coupe and roadster to this range
2 things to do:
You're raising prices much higher than they need to be, and as Guy said - and he's absolutely right - you're proposing excessive customization, which will make each of your off-the-shelf products unique, because virtually no two people will have the same configuration for the same car (just look at the number of 458/911s and other McLarens that are totally different, because the customer can configure them as he likes).
That's the solution, and it's the only profitable one.
Except that you can add to Lancia or even Maserati a top-of-the-range VAN de Luxe (Lexus is going to make a lot of money with theirs, since orders exploded as soon as they announced it).
You're leaving China out for Alfa, which will be targeting the Middle East, India, Russia, Africa, Australia, the USA and North and South America (including Canada), along with Europe.
China you add to Lancia and Maserati by offering 2 different sizes of each product mentioned in 4-door versions (like the future Quattroporte, it seems).
Demand will be so strong that we'll have to increase the volume a little each year.
Also make On/Off products (like the 33) for each brand at 7-figure prices in ultra-limited series.
For Maserati I agree, but for Alfa Romeo there can't just be high-performance models like the Quadrifoglio, and limited series like the 33 Stradale. If you visit the Alfa Romeo museum in Arese, you'll see that many Alfa models from the 60s, 70s and 80s (Giulia, Giulietta, Alfetta, GTV, (I dare not say Alfasud because you'll say it was a mistake), and even more recent ones like the 147 and 156, weren't necessarily ultra-high-performance cars, but that doesn't stop their engines from having character, and the design was often brilliant and always very distinctive. I'm not sure that Alfa Romeo should be considered an elitist brand with only very expensive cars.
For Lancia, the Ypsilon generations have sold well, and sales are still going strong in Italy. These are small cars with a certain Italian luxury and elegance, and they don't stand out that much from the Lancia line.
Alfa, Lancia and Maserati must follow the same path.
You talk about Alfa in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and 2000's but you forget to look at the reality that Alfa was state owned and the leaden years plus the problems with the Mafia considerably weakened Alfa's investments from the 60's onwards (no better at Lancia because of the Mafia) and we ended up with products with a fantastic concept but derisory reliability and platforms whose rust treatments were sadly absent!
Autobianchi was also a hit with the Y10.
Giovanni and Lucas and Enzo have always said that Alfa and Lancia's problem was not having a real leader of the calibre of Enzo Ferrari, who with such a mentality would have put these brands back on the map.
It would have been better for these 2 brands than Lucas' proposal (which was partly responsible for his loss to Marchionne), to place Alfa under Ferrari and Lancia under Maserati and leave them completely independent, as was the case for Ferrari.
What's stopping us from making a Tonale/Giulietta and Delta/Musa equipped with a 3-cylinder BiTurbo (as already mentioned, Koeninsegg is getting 600hp out of its 2.0 3-cylinder) in a longitudinal hybrid position at €50,000 apiece, but limited in number per year?
The 500 is doing better than the Ypsilon in terms of sales, so why not bring out a 500 with counter-hinged doors in a luxury version like the RIVA?
The time for excessive volumes is over, and the time for limited numbers and profits must become the priority, because without profits, we can't have a serene future.
Stanislas
But as you describe so well, not only would people have to want to drive electric, but we'd also have to see if people really wanted to buy this cheap knock-off.
As for Luxury, they don't want to (sales of the 33 prove it), so you're absolutely right to say that the politicians are going to have to change their tune, otherwise sales of generalists will melt like snow in the sun.
We'll say it again and again.... too bad they missed the PHEV turn.... even Lambo's getting in on the act.
After 2 ghibli, I had to decide to leave this fabulous brand.
and for a long time, I'm afraid.
There's nothing to stop them really getting going for Alfa Lancia and Maserati, since Toyota and Lexus still sell a lot of them, and Mazda is more tempted by the PHEV than the electric (which also saves the rotary piston engine).
The extended Giorgio platform under Jeep allows this, and it's stupid of Tavares not to use it instead of stubbornly trying to go all-electric, which apparently nobody wants.
Even Toyota is sticking with hydrogen for Lexus and its brand, and believes like many others that this is the future, since any engine is capable of accepting it (especially the rotary piston engine, I admit, as demonstrated on the RX8).
Hello everyone
I bought a maserati quattroporte in 2006 frankly I spend more time in the garage than on the road and also the service workshop at maserati dealers example maserati Bordeaux are very unpleasant but to sell parts it no worries and I tried to reach maserati France to tell them my dissatisfaction nobody so with a little luck maserati in rennes are more professional than Bordeaux they tried to repair my car I ask that it changes but I will change car I'm looking for audi or mercedes sorry
Thank you. Mr sulak
Good luck with Audi, because you're going to get a lot of trouble and their after-sales service is really deplorable, because the only thing they know how to say is:
"If there's a breakdown it's not us but it's all down to the driver!"
We've heard this refrain so many times in rental agencies when we were buying Audi or international or diplomatic organizations that this brand has been crossed off the shopping list and no one wants or trusts them anymore.
I've got the latest V8 4.2 sold in Switzerland, which will soon reach 75,000km. I can't complain, I've never had a problem, but I have a complete overhaul done every 5,000km. This explains why, when you buy a sports limousine with a racing limit, you shouldn't hesitate to call on the services to avoid any problems.
As far as Mercedes is concerned, it's like Maserati, the problem is always the electronics, especially with Mercedes, which are constantly out of order and all too often they end up on the side of the road or in town because the car won't restart, just like the Porsches, and that's a real pain when you've got customers on board, and it's the same with SUVs.
With the Maybach SUV or Maybach S-Class, just like with the Panamera or Cayenne, you constantly have to call for assistance, as happened at the UN on Monday, when I had to ask for the Lexus to be brought back to transport the Mexican ambassador 🇲🇽.
If you want a limousine that never poses a problem and rarely sees the dealership for financial reasons, forget the Germans right away and buy a Lexus, otherwise you'll be disgusted by limousines, which is why there are so many Lexus in Taxis or prestige transport companies in Switzerland 🇨🇭. They were fed up with losing customers due to repeated breakdowns, and we're left with just one S-Class, 3 Maseratis (Ghibli, Quattroporte 5 4.7 GTS and Quattroporte 6 Trofeo) and 6 Lexus LSs.
We're getting rid of the S class early next year (45,000km) and the 4 Mercedes VANs will be replaced by Lexus (only one has passed the 100,000km mark, but we've changed 2 gearboxes, 2 turbos and half the dashboard, which ends up looking like a Christmas tree all the time).
Alfa Romeo's strategy has been completely wrong for years. Maserati is beginning to do the same.
They don't listen to brand enthusiasts.
Even with electric cars, they're lagging behind.
The Grecale Folgore will be released at the same time as the electric Macan. We'll talk about it again when the time comes for comparisons.
You'll have to show me where Alfa and Maserati went wrong, and as for the Macan, I'm laughing in anticipation, knowing that Porsche is backtracking year after year because the VAG group's electrical system is totally failing and customers aren't buying into electrics. Yes, I'll grant you that for years they haven't listened to customers, to the point where this has been felt at Maserati, Alfa and Lancia, except for Maserati when it was placed under the Ferrari umbrella, and sales have demonstrated this (with permanent upgrades almost every year). For Alfa, it's the opposite: for once, after the massacre that was the 159/Brera/Spider, they had really taken customer needs into account with the Giulia and the Stelvio, but preferred to stubbornly stick to 4-cylinder petrol and diesel models. Maserati, Lancia and Alfa missed the boat with the PHEV, didn't want to limit the number of models and didn't put as much effort into Lancia. Sharing existing platforms between these 3 brands would have been more beneficial financially (we all remember the Thesis mistake, which was a magnificent limousine but whose main fault was the same as that of the Thema, not having 4WD and releasing such a product with front-wheel drive). We owe this disaster to Marchionne, who, like Ghosn and Tavares, is a financier rather than an automotive visionary.
When you bend to the will of shareholders instead of the other way around, you end up with this result, unfortunately. Redesigning the Granturismo is all well and good, but a PHEV version, like the Grecale, alongside the internal combustion and electric versions, would have been 1,000 times more interesting than trying to create a single all-electric range for the future, because enthusiasts don't want it. Separating Maserati from Ferrari was a fatal mistake if it wasn't to give it independence, and leaving Lancia and Alfa in the FCA fold was another.
Future mistakes with Alfa will really start now, and I'm afraid this is the kind of mistake that will condemn the brand to being sold to another group (Toyota? Honda?).
If Maserati and Lancia don't wake up, they'll end up the same way.